Here is something coming from a man's perspective.
Sometimes the best control is no control at all, the WAH dosen't control and lets the OW think she is in control. As long as she thinks she is in control she will stick around.
The WAH lets OW take over bill payment and make decisions because that stuff is work, it requires thinking and they don't want to do that at this time.
WAW is exactly opposite in my opinion, they are looking to control someone as they have the perception they have been controled in thier M.
Here is something coming from a man's perspective.
Sometimes the best control is no control at all, the WAH dosen't control and lets the OW think she is in control. As long as she thinks she is in control she will stick around.
The WAH lets OW take over bill payment and make decisions because that stuff is work, it requires thinking and they don't want to do that at this time.
WAW is exactly opposite in my opinion, they are looking to control someone as they have the perception they have been controled in thier M.
This has been an interesting thread. One difference with my H is that OW does not pay his bills. He does it all himself, which is nice as I had done it for 15 years!!!! I might add that he has no extra money for OW at all in a month's time as it goes into this household, and gas for his car as well as lunch money for him--that comes out to less than $250 left per month for those things.
On the other hand, I do believe OW is very insecure and probably does not trust my H as much because he is here on weekends, and spends all holidays with us. I am sure it gets old after awhile seeing that OW never spends a "holiday" with her married lover. I think if I were OW, I would be furious that
1. MY lover is going to his house to see his kids and wife each weekend.
2. That he spends all holidays with them.
3. That he has no intention of filing for divorce.
I would think she would dump him but no, she is insecure and will cling to whatever she can for right now.
Last edited by steelersfan; 06/22/0705:13 PM.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
Exactly which is what I think will happen in my sitch because they have rented a ROOM, not an apt. Imagine that--I would feel very suffocated in that environment.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
interesting perspective. I was thinking something similar (see below).
OT -
For a long time, I just figured he was in a hurry to get to her. But it's when he started repeating what I say on the phone that I started to wonder WTF was going on. He seems to be trying to make it clear who he is talking to and what he is talking about. My take on it is that either he wants her to feel secure (and she's not, or why bother?), or she is controlling. Either way, it doesn't sound like a healthy R.
This has all made me realize that I don't think H and I could ever get back together b/c I just wouldn't want to deal with the stress of not trusting him, and I don't see how I could get past that. Not that I'll ever need to probably.
It does hurt to see him falling all over himself to make her happy - e.g. taking time off work to spend the day with her - when he hasn't done that for me since the earliest days. He didn't even take the day off when I was in the hospital miscarrying! I so want to say something to him about that. I know, I know - don't. Makes me mad, though.
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
"My take on it is that either he wants her to feel secure (and she's not, or why bother?), or she is controlling. Either way, it doesn't sound like a healthy R."
My H may actually do the same kind of narration when he talks to XW. He does it to share with me in cases in which we'll probably talk about it afterwards. He does it freely because he wants to. Just like people here post about convos to share them and talk about them. There is also some way in which making the conversation public reduces its intrusiveness into his life. I know it pisses off H's XW when he talks to her and she knows I am around. She makes snipey remarks about me not allowing them to have a private conversation. But it is really H's choice whether he talks to her when I am around or not, and he prefers conversation to be more public in some way. It keeps things more civil I guess, which is important when kids are involved and is hard when one X is still trying to be a part of the other X's life in ways that X does not welcome. (For instance, trying to work through problems in an R that no longer exists--kind of like the hospital incident you are correctly resisting rehashing.)
So, I really have no idea if you are right about your sitch or not. But, again, why does it matter? Why is it so important for them not to have a healthy R?
I am sure it hurts to see him doing things for her that he did not do for you. But, what hurts is that he did not do them for you and you accepted that. That is the hurt to work on healing, your own hurt about what he did to you. And, that is the hurt to heal by yourself. It is no longer something for you to work through together and will not be unless he decides to work on the M. And, it has nothing to do with OW. His behavior with OW simply reminds you of hurts you buried or tried to bury.
So, again, quit worrying about the R between WAH and OW.
Indeed, quit calling her OW. It seems as though H has made very clear to you that he has exited the M. That means you are no longer W, so she is not OW. She is the single W in his life as a romantic P right now. Call her his GF. It will be better for you. She remains OW only as long as you feel are, and are entitled to be, the W in WAHs life. You are not in his life as a romantic partner and love is not about entitlement.
I am sure it hurts to see him doing things for her that he did not do for you. But, what hurts is that he did not do them for you and you accepted that. That is the hurt to work on healing, your own hurt about what he did to you. And, that is the hurt to heal by yourself. It is no longer something for you to work through together and will not be unless he decides to work on the M. And, it has nothing to do with OW. His behavior with OW simply reminds you of hurts you buried or tried to bury.
So, again, quit worrying about the R between WAH and OW.
Indeed, quit calling her OW. It seems as though H has made very clear to you that he has exited the M. That means you are no longer W, so she is not OW. She is the single W in his life as a romantic P right now. Call her his GF. It will be better for you. She remains OW only as long as you feel are, and are entitled to be, the W in WAHs life. You are not in his life as a romantic partner and love is not about entitlement.
I love this.
Nicola, I know how you feel lovey. And I wish I could take the hurt away.
I can't say I have let go to this point stated above, but I am starting to get there.
“Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you.”
The strange thing is that when he left, he said he was tired of the responsiblities of a husband
Mine said EXACTLY the same. He wanted to be ALONE! That he had never been ALONE. Went from mothers house at the age of 28 to wife #1......then back to mom's and onto me wife #2.....then back to Teddies/Moms now is living with GF #3.
Does this sound like a happy man? I think not. This to me, sounds like a baby that cannot deal with any sort of resonsibility or pressure at all.
MOMMIES BOY!
***************** RICH IS A MOMMIES BOY ************************
Damn....sorry, but I sure feel better Thanks. Whew!
Change the Policy. Allow PM's Free all of us.
Also some new and improved emoticons would be nice!
Hi oldtimer. Great post. When we call them OW/OM we give them too much power. The spouse made a choice. It isn't the OW/OM fault. They didn't make a vow to any of us. Our spouses did. And it isn't to say we can just toss our feelings aside, but the obsessions hurts us and no one else.
It was the realization that my now XW did not have the character to swallow her pride and recommit that I suggested we continue with the D process. She did not possess (at least it hasn't shown up to this date)the resolve to even begin to reconcile.
I heard it all; your a great guy, your a fantastic Dad, we have all we need, I know I'm pulling the rug out from under you,.... ILYBINILWY. I'm thinking, huh, isn't that a good start, let's build on it. I believe you are where I was. You DB'd your butt off. You successfully, sought your contributions to the M, good and bad, you resolved to correct them and showed great poise the whole time.
In the end, we mad it difficult for our spouses to go through with the process. It was 18 months for me, I think you are beyond that point.
In a nut shell, we did what we had to and accomplished what we could and should be very proud of the challenges we faced and conquered. We can walk tall and proud, our spouses carry the shame, it is evident.
It still sucks, the kids, the in-laws, the mutual friends, scheduling, etc.... all of the inevitable complications, another burden to bear, another burden to learn from. (either we were really stupid or we're Mensa material by now)
Not really sure where I'm going with this, but maybe to let you now you are not alone in your thoughts and you are doing.
(( nic )) I can totally understand how hurtful it must be to see H doing things for his GF that you had wanted yourself. I felt that somewhat myself - lavish outings, time, etc.
OT - I think your perspective of your H's XW is wonderful, but you were not the OW at all. XW wanting 'privacy' when you are his W now is absurd. She has no right to demand that anymore. I could not imagine doing that in the future. I would be appalled at myself for being so ridiculous and disrespectful. My H had OW for sure (and can be classified as such) and I have to admit that some of my transgressions in M were toxic to H. My only gripe was that H did not communicate them, or did not give me a chance to work on the M together, he was already gone.
However, I will state my views on the OW stuff. While I don't think highly of the women in H's "exit" from our M, I also don't think they were evil. Sure, they're not like ME, and didn't pursue a R like I would have with a man, but neither did my H take that road. It's like blaming the Smirnoff bottle for alcoholism. It's out there, and we can't blame IT for our own poor choices. To me, blaming the OP solely and too much is enabling what got our spouses in this position to begin with: being a victim to poor choices, no accountability, no self-awareness and personal change. In fact, I will go as far as to say that demonizing the OP is patronizing...to our spouses. It makes them seem like stupid little boys who need to have their environment controlled to they don't behave badly. The sanctity of my M lay in the hands of my H and I, that is IT. It was not a strange woman's responsibility to save my M.
Of course, this is not to say that there are some OW that are not truly evil, controlling and plain weird. But, what do we expect from someone who needs to find security and a "relationship" by bedding a married person?
Why do they pander to the controlling? I was astounded when my H did the similar things. When he accepted qualities and behavior from another woman that he was simultaneously bashing me for (which were not true). I was baffled.
I think the answer lies in a revealing statement from my H when he had a lapse in madness: She was never meant to replace you, at all. She was not a soul mate or life partner.
I think the answer lies in WHY they need an OP to exit a M in the first place. Ideally, you should not. The type of person the OP is in their life...we notice that they "affair down" mostly.
This is a person who is willing to date a M person - take a person in a tumultuous state in life. Frankly, in many of the cases here, a person who is a mess. I can't imagine that our spouses have any REAL respect for these people. Because, after all, living with a person they had real respect for was too much. So, it's easy to let a person you, deep down, think is "beneath" have control, b/c it's not real control. It's like letting the kids win the game. You have the upper hand, the prize, the real control.
BUT, it's not easy to let a person you view (or once viewed) as an equal, have the control. That involves real pride, control, power. I think we, the LBS, fit into this category. It means being vulnerable.
I think it's easy to make the effort and play the game right if you know you will win. It's easier to take the day off, spend lavishly, give control to a person that you know will adore you, admire you - you have already won.
In some ways, I did feel sorry for the women in my H's life. I felt ashamed that I had been with a man who treated women this way - using them. I know it's bold and somewhat presumptuous for me to say that he did that, but it's obvious that he did, as do many here. I suspect they were lied to, as well. While I'm not taking out my violin for them, I do admit that our H's treatment of these women is just as appalling and uncaring as the OP were to our M's.
Thanks. Whew!