I didn't see you two getting to the root of the EA.
OK. I've thought a little more about this. Here's the *root* as discussed/talked about/processed by both of us...
Just over 3 years ago, I lost virtually all of my (fairly good) income overnight through a freelance contract that was pulled out from under me with zero warning. At the same time, we'd only just bought a bigger house, with a bigger mortgage, which we therefore couldn't afford anymore, which also needed a shitload of work doing to it, which, again, we couldn't afford anymore. A month later, we had our second child, a month after that, my W's dad was diagnosed with very late stage cancer. He died within 5 months.
Ok, so that's the background. Multiply that by 2 years - neither of us getting on particularly well, no money, no social life, 2 young kids who wouldn't sleep well, lots of debt, me getting depressed because I'm not earning the money we need even though I'm going hell for leather with work, me getting too wrapped up in work, me not doing any of the things I used to enjoy anymore, me getting depressed, angry, resentful because I'm not getting the affection I need from my W who's also depressed, angry and resentful of the situation so is not feeling up to dishing out any kind of affection in the first place, and who is also not doing any of the things she used to enjoy, and who also has some post-natal depression, and with both of us living in a rundown, fallingdown, yet potentially stunning, house with holes in the roof and buckets on the floor to catch the drips that pissed on us day and night and day again.
Add a sprinkle of body image/self esteem/aging issues on my W's part, stick it on the back burner, boiling point, for 2 years. What do you get? A recipe for disaster, right?
So, she began going online as an escape from the day-to-day [censored], right. Just checking stuff out at first. Chatting to people. Y'know. No sinister intentions at all. Then, wahaay, a 24 YO kid starts paying her some attention, just when she really needs it, and blammo... she buys it. And the rest is (very recent) history.
So, that's basically the root. She was escaping from what was essentially a very, very shitty life. Or a very, very shitty period in what should have been a great life.
Yes, we have talked about this. Processed it. Whatever. I fully accept my (significant) part in it. However, my problem has been that all the time, I've been looking hard for something concrete to hang her EA on. I've been asking myself what one *single* thing did I do that was so awful that she had to go and do it. She's not been able to give me that answer, because there WASN'T *one* thing that I did.
It was the entire situation. Her life.
So when I'm asked what caused this mess, I catch myself saying (or writing) that she's not really given me a single reason. But y'know, she actually has. We've already discussed it. At length.
She was escaping. I can't condone it, but I can sorta understand what she was feeling because I was going through the exact same thing. I was sorely, sorely tempted to leave myself, but maybe my threshold for riding out [censored] is higher than hers, and I was able to stick it out. Who knows.
What I do know is that the EA and her 'moving' out were a wake-up call for us both - and a clear sign that we needed to sort our lives out. And we are.
As for climbing back up out of the pit, we've talked about what we need to do: Sort the finances out. Pay more attention to the house we're in. Not get so wrapped up in work. Do more stuff together. Communicate more. Talk. Etc, etc.
Of course, some of these things take time, but we're getting there.
I think.
Now, is any of that a valid (for want of a better term) root of an EA?
AC wrote: "Yes, we have talked about this. Processed it. Whatever. I fully accept my (significant) part in it. However, my problem has been that all the time, I've been looking hard for something concrete to hang her EA on. I've been asking myself what one *single* thing did I do that was so awful that she had to go and do it. She's not been able to give me that answer, because there WASN'T *one* thing that I did"
The answer to your query is that you didn't do anything to cause her to make a bad choice. She did that all by herself.
Which brings me to my question. Does your wife 100% completely OWN that she and she alone made her bad choice, and that no one forced or coerced her into making said choice, including any existing situational contributers to the state of the relationship?
If not, then she needs some serious work.
Bad relationships happen. Bad choices are just that. Choices. No one held a gun to her head and told her to have an affair, even then, she would have a choice.
I can tell you with good certainty, that she is NOT being honest with you about how she feels - even now.
Please don't assume responsibility for her actions. Obviously you have done that in the past. I strongly encourage you to refrain from doing it again. You are responsible for your half of the relationship, but that is all.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I also want to recommend a book to you. It is named "NOT Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass.
Here is what Michele has to say about it: "Every once in a while a book comes along that is so illuminating, instructive, down-to-earth, and inspiring that it truly transforms lives. Since no marriage- including yours- is immune to infidelity, Not Just Friends just climbed to the #1 book on my required reading list for couples. This book is a godsend." -- Michele Weiner-Davis, author of The Divorce Remedy and The Sex-Starved Marriage
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I think you've been very patient and understanding and your W and you sound as if you're both reconnecting really well.
Yes she made a bad choice and you may well have done the same thing given the circumstances.
Its hard to put into words what I mean about just going for it and being more forceful. I really don't mean any man should rape his wife or that no shouldn't mean no. Its just that sometimes a woman likes to be taken that step further. Its a fine line to tread but if she's giving you the right signals and then you back off that can be a turn off too.
It isn't realy fair that she thinks she has the right to dictate she'll only ML when she's ready and on her terms. Guess thats her boundary but doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't challenge it.
No matter how much better your relationship is zero sex is a deal breaker IMO.
The answer to your query is that you didn't do anything to cause her to make a bad choice. She did that all by herself.
That's what took me a little while to understand.
However, I still read time and time again about how it takes two to cause these kind of problems in a relationship. During that awful period a couple of years ago, we BOTH pulled away from each other. I wasn't handling stuff particularly well at all. I put on weight. I sat around and did nothing. I lost my social life. I just wasn't interested. Basically, she tried hard to hold it together, yet I continued to be a miserable [censored] - and I didn't even realise what I was doing. I was a completely different person to who I was. Even my parents had noticed that I wasn't running on all cylinders - and they didn't even see the half of what we were going through.
So while I'm not to blame for her making the choices she made, I was certainly a contributing factor to WHY those choices were made in the first place. Yes, she could have handled things differently, but she didn't. Nothing we can do about that now. However, it's something I've learned from. And something she's learned from, too.
And I don't want to go too much into the EA, but it was very brief, not particularly 'successful' in any way, and I get the feeling that she was pleased for it to end.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
Which brings me to my question. Does your wife 100% completely OWN that she and she alone made her bad choice, and that no one forced or coerced her into making said choice, including any existing situational contributers to the state of the relationship?
Yes, of course she does. She's apologised for making it. She knows it was wrong. And she knows there were other - better - ways around the problem.
I think you're probably right, though. She's not being honest. I think she probably is vacillating. Not between me and the thought of someone else, however, but between me and 'no me'.
She's still making sure. If that makes sense?
Her behaviour around me isn't the behaviour of someone who is [still] involved with anyone else.
I think you've been very patient and understanding and your W and you sound as if you're both reconnecting really well.
Yes she made a bad choice and you may well have done the same thing given the circumstances.
Yep, I very nearly did. Honestly, it was 2 years of constant trauma, and the fact that we are still together as a family after all that gives me a lot of hope.
Remember, she made the moves for us to try again after I'd pretty much accepted that we were over, and she asked me if we could have a 'fresh start', and she said that she 'wanted to build a newer and better life together'. Also remember that right now, she doesn't actually NEED me here as such. Technically, on paper, this is her house, she's the one with the regular full time income, and I'm here re-building my business.
So, I'm assuming she WANTS me here. Actually, no, scratch that. I'm not assuming - she's told me as much herself.
Originally Posted By: shmagic
Its hard to put into words what I mean about just going for it and being more forceful.
I know exactly what you mean. It's hard being in my position and knowing how forceful to (or not to) be. Like last night, we were watching TV late last night and she was lying with her head in my lap, and she loves her hair being stroked, and just recently I've found her super weak spot again which is the hairline on the nape of her neck, and I'm tracing my finger along it, and she's shifting around like she used to when she felt turned on, and I'm just kinda holding her tight, and we decide to go upstairs, and we spoon in bed, and I can feel her pushing back against me, and she's rubbing her feet up and down my legs and, and... shoite! I just couldn't find the guts in me to try to take it any further and we fall asleep against each other.
Again.
I guess all that rejection is really beginning to take its toll on me, eh?
Maybe I'm the one with the problem... heh.
(Oh, and Mrs. AC - I think I've said this before, but if you happen to discover all this, it's just me journaling, and trying to work things out in my own head, 'k. x )
No, you're just still scared to go that step further because of the rejection you are used to and don't want to feel anymore.
I know where you are coming from as far as, accepting she made the choice to cheat, but also knowing your transgressions in the M as well. I actually think that helps me put things in better perspective to 'accept' the A's. Yes, he made a horrible choice w/ horrible consequences, but I wasn't innocent in all of it either.
I know my H felt he was doing everything possible to make my life easier around the house, etc. and I just wasn't seeing it. I guess that's kind of like the 5 LL in a way. He finally just gave up & said scr*w it all, I'm done trying. I guess at first when I tried to make things better, he was like "too little, too late" but finally came around when he saw that I wasn't just going through the motions of trying to build our R/M back up. I don't know this for sure, but maybe that's why he decided to finally stay. I'd like to think it's because he truly still loved me all along, even though he said he didn't, and finally decided to allow himself to trust me again that I was sincere in making things better for us.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Her behaviour around me isn't the behaviour of someone who is [still] involved with anyone else.
That might be the case PHYSICALLY but not necessarily emotionally. She is most likely still dealing with a lot of emotion regarding the OP and sorting through a lot of things in her head. As much as I truly believe the betrayed spouse suffers more emotion and pain than the betrayer (and this has been confirmed in all the books I have read AND by both the MC I have gone to) they, in their own right, are suffering too. They have to deal with a lot of emotions too.
Just her being with you now, as opposed to the OP, doesn't make it all go away
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
She's squirming around she's clearly turned on you go to bed and she rubs up against you and....and....YOU GO TO SLEEP.
Next time you are in this position you had better report back on here that you went all the way or I swear I'll hop on a plane and bash you over the head.
I know how it feels to be rejected believe me I KNOW how hellish it is to make a move and be rejected over and over and over again. It is sooooo hard to think of it happening again but you are getting the right signals and mentally she's probably scared too.
MAKE THE MOVE NEXT TIME and don't pull away.
It's Saturday night I want to see action and expect a success tomorrow morning
(Oh, and Mrs. AC - I think I've said this before, but if you happen to discover all this, it's just me journaling, and trying to work things out in my own head, 'k. x )
Why do you keep doing this? You really need to contemplate why you feel this is neccessary. Take your time. It will help you with your sitch, in many differant areas.
Untill you figure that out, you should stop doing it. When you do figure it out, dont try to justify it. We have talked about it aaaallllloooooottttttt around here. No matter the reason, there is no good reason. However you twist it placating is not attractive, and always goes unappreciated. Oh. Damn. I just gave it away.
Just say oh....and stop doing it. You have a lot of worth to your family. I think you do. Your W thinks you do. Those opinions do not matter if you dont think you do. Just like her opinion on her looks. If her response to your compliments on her looks is deferring, denying, differing or any other thing besides a simple thank you, stop complimenting her. She cant hear it, so save your breath. You cant tell someone, what they dont believe.
If you dont feel so good about your worth, right now, go do something to change your feeling. Noone else can do that for you. If you are, or are trying your best, that also is reason to be proud of yourself. Give yourself a pat on the back.
You have some fear and uncertainty. Thats understandable, but needs to be handled. Thats not an acceptable excuse to not thrash stuff out with your W. She may be cute, but I guarantee, her sh!t (relationship wise) still stinks. The more you thrash stuff out with your W the more confidance and understanding you will have, as to her intentions.
This was a good commment from Xue
Quote:
So I can cook my wife a beautiful meal because I am needy and think it will win her back or I can cook my wife a beautiful meal because I love her and I want to (and I want a good meal myself). The actions are the same but there is a huge difference. I believe women are subtle creatures and they know this difference. I know my wife knows this difference because her reaction is different.
Think about your Intent before you Act. Stop doing, untill you are no longer Reacting, and are instead Acting.
