I glad you got some sleep. You need to do what's best for you. I know the panic attack feeling. I got it once while seriously discussing leaving my husband. I suddenly couldn't breathe.
If you continue to live in the same house he needs to be civil to you. I know you didn't like my point before that you were doing too much to please him, and he wasn't making any effort on your part, but you will still need that. Even a partnership is a two-way street.
I hope you will get the understanding that you need.
I probably should have called my friend from LI last night. I was just so out of control, and embarrassed / don't want to keep dumping on her...she'd kick my a$$ to hear me say that, though... even my cousin... But I don't think I would have even been coherent. It really drives home the PA love language that I need, I guess. For someone so verbal, I'm a bit surprised that I need that.
I am going to call the C today, and I have an appt for tomorrow that was already set up.
As far as H being civil; by and large, he really is. His actions have been hurtful, but not directed towards me for the most part (it was his directing his attention elsewhere that hurt). He is polite, we can make small talk and laugh...there is just this underlying...sadness. He says that the worst part of this whole thing, the part that hurts him the most, is that he can't find the love for me anymore. I think he really wanted to, but can't figure out how.
It is such a sad thing.
I miss him so much, and he is right here. I have to see if I can make do with him as a friend. I guess that is the detachment thing, anyway, the DBing principals at work. I wonder sometimes if my heart can take it.
But the alternative, like last night...I don't think I can make it through that. I wish I could be as strong as you are OT...I just don't know if it is in me. I don't know which is in myself--the love or the need, first. It seems a bit like the chicken and the egg, coexisting at the same time.
I think I am going to ask him to write up what he thinks the "committment to the family but not the marriage" would look like. And I'll write up the boundaries I think I would need, see if we can try that for a while. He keeps saying that it is not about meeting someone else, that he doesn't want to get his heart broken again. I believe that... maybe this whole thing is about him trying to find his own independence, breaking free from the limits he thought came from me but really came from within himself. I would not have denied him living his life, doing what made him happy.
But maybe I did that, just by suggestion. Asking him to drive carefully and wear a seatbelt. Being hurt / insecure about other women. I don't know...I guess that there are limits / compromises to make when you are married, and he felt stifled?
Again, trying to decifer something when it really doesn't matter anymore. He has to take his life into his own hands. Maybe I was in the driver's seat for too long, unknowingly. Let him lead...
Last night showed me that I need to be near him, at least. I need to have someone to hold me sometimes; its not as a lover (although I will / do miss that part of my life), but something deeper--knowing that I am not alone in the world.
It all sounds so pathetic and weak when I write it out, but I don't know how else to deal with it.
Staying together in the same house will keep us in each other's lives, financially secure for ourselves and the kids, keep up the team work in managing a home and family, and have someone close who at least cares. There is love between us, if not romantic love. I just need to set him free. Maybe I will find a freedom of my own, too. Free and committed? Wonder what that will look like...
Anyway, I find myself grateful for all of you again. As crazed as I may be at times, I can only imagine it being a thousand times worse if I only had this rolling around in my head, not able to share it with people who know...
I don't know what the others will say, but that all sounds good to me. Michele has a good paper on the Forums page called Time Together that talks about people thinking that the love dies, but really it just got buried under a lot of other stuff. You should read it, or if you've already read it, read it again.
If you move to a friendship mode there is the opportunity for you to take some time and date your H. He could find the love again. It will be a slow process, of course. You two are deeply entwined. But I don't think your whole family should now sleep in the basement!
No, I'm thinking that maybe he will suggest turning either the basement or the spare room into a bedroom for him--we both deserve a space to call our own, if sharing one is uncomfortable. I'd be ok with that.
It will be a relief to not have to think about some crappy apt somewhere, schlepping the kids back and forth--I really want to disrupt their lives as little as possible. And I want to continue the lifestyle that they have--we're not rich, but we're making the bills and not struggling, finally paying down the debt.
If H and I were always arguing or yelling, I would never even consider this option. But we don't--the only disagreements that got aired in many years are this whole mess! He bottled every other negative thought inside of him. That is something, even if we do the roommate thing, that we will have to work on. I am thinking hard about that being one of my boundaries. Compromise is not about giving in, it is about working out an agreement.
We have always seen practically eye-to-eye about the children; even agreed to that in our one joint MC session--they were the best part of our R as of late.
So, breathing today. Stayed in my PJs until 11:30, and the kids and I are justing hanging out.
I wish all of these trials had been handled a little bit at a time over our 21 years together, instead of all at once like this.
It's amazing how a couple of days you can feel more pain than you ever felt in your entire life. But like I said in my earlier post, it gets better Donna.
H-36 W-38 Married 14yrs Together 17 2 Children (D12, S15) 9/20/05 - Seperated 4/23/07 - Dbomb dropped 4/25/07 - I Love you, not in love "If it's not hard, it's not worth fighting for."
I think you could greatly benefit from the method of communication they teach at Retrouvaille. And I know you say that is out of the question. If you send me your email address, I will try to explain how to do it. I know it will be less effective without their entire program, but it is worth a try. I don't want to try to explain it here because I still want to encourage others to do the Retrouvaille weekend and not try a shortcut.
Sara i've been reading about them and sadly there isn't one in my area for another 3 months. Also my wife and I both work weekend days so it makes it very difficult to attend (if I can even talk her into it). If you're willing to share what you're sharing with Donna...I think a lot of people could benefit from a high level view.
H-36 W-38 Married 14yrs Together 17 2 Children (D12, S15) 9/20/05 - Seperated 4/23/07 - Dbomb dropped 4/25/07 - I Love you, not in love "If it's not hard, it's not worth fighting for."
Trust me, you are much more together than I was in your place. I would call XH in the middle of the night and lie about the dog freaking out just so I could talk to him. I had so much physical anxiety, my arms felt completely bizarre. I just wanted to cut them off to make the feeling go away, not seriously, but I did hate carrying my arms around with me.
"I think I am going to ask him to write up what he thinks the "committment to the family but not the marriage" would look like. And I'll write up the boundaries I think I would need, see if we can try that for a while."
Donna, please please please, wait on this. Personally, I think the idea is incredibly unhealthy. In any case, you have two months living as roommates to try it out. Just let things be and see how they go.
Also, your intense analysis is probably one reason he feels overwhelmed by you. He cannot keep up with you. At the end of an argument, when he concedes, he probably later feels somewhat taken -- "Hey, what happened to what I was saying. She pulled her tricks again, I just can't keep up with her."
"He keeps saying that it is not about meeting someone else, that he doesn't want to get his heart broken again. I believe that..."
Donna, that jewelry was not for you. He has been having an extended EA, maybe a PA, maybe with CW, maybe with someone else.
"maybe this whole thing is about him trying to find his own independence, breaking free from the limits he thought came from me but really came from within himself."
No doubt.
"I would not have denied him living his life, doing what made him happy."
If this is true, then you have got to find other support systems. You cannot keep H around because you need him. He does not want to be there for you in that capacity. He is tired of making you happy, keeping you happy. He does not want his life to be about YOUR needs.
"Last night showed me that I need to be near him, at least."
No, you really don't. You will be OK. Get your puppy. Go see MIL. Go see your friends. Get in your car and go get a hug from a cousin. Post in Just For Fun and find other DBers who live near you. Go for a massage. Find a hug therapy group.
"but something deeper--knowing that I am not alone in the world."
You are not alone in the world. Until you can feel this on your own, you will remain too dependent on H. He does not want to keep making the world the way you want it to be for you anymore.
"It all sounds so pathetic and weak when I write it out, but I don't know how else to deal with it."
OMG, it does not so pathetic or weak. Writing it out is a great way to deal with it.
"Staying together in the same house will keep us in each other's lives, financially secure for ourselves and the kids, keep up the team work in managing a home and family, and have someone close who at least cares. There is love between us, if not romantic love. I just need to set him free. Maybe I will find a freedom of my own, too. Free and committed? Wonder what that will look like..."
You have two months to try to see if this will work. You don't need to figure out the details. You don't need to make long term plans. You don't need to give him anything on paper or get anything from him on paper. You have agreed to live together for two months. Just back off and see how it goes. Don't try to read the future.
For now, focus on your own support systems. Who can you call, where can you go, who can you see? There are answers to these questions. You are NOT alone in the world. You just want to give the answer you WANT. But that is not good for you, H, or your M in the long run. There is NO WAY he is going to have the space he needs if you are relying on him to meet your emotional/physical needs. His need is to be emotionally/physically independent from you. And, you truly need to become OK by yourself. And you can.
Working on YOUR communication skills is fine. Don't share with H, though. Don't try to tell him how he should be communicating. Don't offer him helpful reading materials. Do not use it as an excuse to go thinly veiled fix-it mode.
I am not sure what your agenda is here. I have always been leary of posters who want to provide private self-help to people behind the scenes because they don't want to share the secret in public. It smacks of some kind of scheme to exploit vulnerable people. I know you mention Retrouvaille, but unless you have some kind of vested interest in the program, I am not sure why you would not explain one of the communication tools here. It is a religiously affiliated program, so I would not expect them to be propriatary about tools that help Ms.
