No, no... he's out of the bed. Ha! I should have made that clearer. He has been for years. That point (when he was between 6 and 18 months old) was just the beginning of the end of our S life.
At least that's the hook that *I* hang it on to...
Well, that depends on whether it's a boundary or a preference. If it's a boundary that's perpetually being crossed then there will be fallout. If it's a preference that you are able to learn to live with (like, for example, choosing to give up, say, a particular hobbby because it's detrimental to the M) then it's a choice you make. And by making that choice, it's your responsibility to prevent the feelings that lead to fallout.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!! Happy dance, happy dance... you get it...
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A timeframe? You mean like if things don't improve by [this date], then I'm out of here, kind of thing? Ummm... nothing firm, but yes, I do have something in mind.
A minimum level? It's very difficult to say when it's flatlined at zero for two years - I've forgotten what my minimum level was!! Heh. Just before our S6 began commandeering that middle spot in our bed at about 6 months old, we were twice a day most days. And I liked that - although I guess it's probably unreasonable/not practical to some extent now. So, right now, I'd be happy with S once a month. But if we ever reached that level, would I then want it once a week? And then every other day? And then once a day? Would I ever be happy? Etc, etc, etc.
You got me. I *really* don't know the answer to that one.
I don't know that you have to figure it out now, but at some point you should probably consider it.... otherwise... no matter what she does, it's never going to seem enough... to you or to her.
Sounds like you are in a good place, actually. Even though those days come along when you feel you just can't hang on anymore (we all hit those days, even in the best of Ms), it sounds like you are taking control where you can, and really working on your mind set. That's really important.
Venting is important... but too much venting can lead to vicious negative, circular thoughts, eh? Maybe at night, before you go to sleep, you can list 10 concrete things you are thankful happened that day. Or if you feel the negatives creeping in... do a thank you list. I know it sounds corny, but it helps (at least it does for me).
Of course, I am HD so I can't speak directly to your question except to say that in my experience it must frequently the case that HD women hang out with other HD women because I have always talked to my female friends about sex and most of them have been quite in favor of it. I had a cute as a button friend way back in high school whose boyfriend was relatively LD (he was cheating on her). I had another friend in H.S. who was a strict Mormon but got repeatedly busted for "undue familiarity" with her boyfriend in the school halls. I really have no clue what the LD girls were talking about at their lunch tables but I always imagined it to be something lame along the lines of "Then he tried to put his tongue in my mouth, It was totally grotesque but the ring he gave me for my birthday cost $329 so I let him." Meanwhile, at our table we were listening with fascination or hilarity to each other's stories about skinny-dipping with male classmates "...and he had a really cute *ss but...." or having sex with sophisticated college men "...and then he dripped hot wax from the candle on me."
It used to be the case that when LDW would talk about what sex fiends their husband's were it would make me depressed and I would be quiet on the topic around them. Now, I'm straight-up "Really, I have a very high sex drive myself. I feel sorry for your H because it s*cks to not get laid enough." Then they'll backtrack and say stuff like "Well, sometimes I'll give him a BJ if I'm not in the mood." It's just a little public service I am doing for the HDH of the world when I get the opportunity.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I did make a couple of HD cyber girlfriends who became IRL friends, but I mostly just listened to them talk about sex and picked up a few ideas. They were part of the reason I started questioning my LD state. One of them is VERY HD and I admired her for being so comfortable with her sexuality and so open about it. Getting to know her helped me see that I was missing out. They already knew I was LD before they met me, because they were on another of cac's boards.
IMHO this is a MAJOR key for the "LD" spouses. Being able to have friends that have been able to be happy and HD.
Hey, wanna be a cyber -> IRL friend to my W? LOL
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I think what you have asked before and are still unsure of is can a marriage survive happily with no sex. The answer is yes of course it can survive if both partners are content with all the other aspects of their lives. From what you've described neither you or your wife are happy with no sex life. If she was happy she wouldn't have had an EA. If you were happy you wouldn't be here asking the question you would just be enjoying your life.
So in a way you've answered the question yourself. Honestly if you've been rebuilding the intimacy and your wife is kissing you passionately and you have fun together you need to tell her you are not prepared to stay in a sexless marriage for the sake of the kids even if thats what you would be prepared to do.
When my H's 1st A ended I told him under no cicumstances did I want him to stay with me because of the children as they grow up and leave I wanted him to stay because he wanted me. Have to say our sex life was brilliant for quite along time till he got the hang ups over the teenagers hearing and it is a bit off putting when you start ML and your 16 year old is walking around outside the room. Hard to make time but weekends away help there.
Do not stay because of children believe it or not I've seen adult children way more devastated when parents of 25 or 30 years divorce. I guess because they saw their parents marriage as the benchmark of success and it really hurts them more in many ways.
If your wife is reading the SSM book it should help her see that life can be better for both of you and I wouldn't really worry too much about how much is enough. I had plans on minimum of once a week but now my H has a painful leg and foot so got to shelf that to zero till its better.
A.C. don't let this continue forever set a time limit or something and TALK properly to your wife and LISTEN as well after she's read the book. If it helps some of the situations on here might help her understand more so print them out and show her. Chocs thread would be a good one and cadesmom.
Yeah, I'm still weighing it all up - on one hand, I don't want to be a 'weekend dad' or have to get by on whatever custody arrangements would be decided, but on the other hand, I also don't think I can stay in a marriage without sex.
Rock and a hard place, anyone?
I totally understand what you're saying about staying for the kids, though. We decided last year that we shouldn't stay together because of the kids, yet when we reconciled, she told me that she wouldn't be back if she didn't want to be with me. Being away obviously gave her plenty of time to think about that.
I think she's warming, I really do. There's more touching and talking happening now than in a long time, although it just never tips over into being fully sexual. It's like she's got some kind of mental barrier right at the end of that particular road that just needs to be busted down. But after the last week or two, I honestly think it's just a matter of time.
So, can I wait a little longer? Or should I risk pushing a little harder?
Depends which part of my body I ask that question to. KWIM? ;o)
Some days I think we've sank into such a deep 'we're ok having no sex' rut that it's a real struggle to get out of it. Of course, she left for a reason (or reasons) and from my POV, those reasons have virtually been eliminated.
(Just for the record, yes I was very guilty of sulking when we didn't ML. Being jealous of the time she spent with the kids, taking it personally, and telling myself that she was neglecting me? Guilty. Getting too wrapped up in work? Guilty. Not telling her about the way I was feeling and letting the resentment and anger build? Damned guilty. Not doing enough around the house? Guilty. Jeez, after all that, I'm going down.... heh. However I'm not saying that she was completely innocent, either, though.)
Anyway, I guess she has to see and believe that I'm past all of that now - and that she needs to be reassured that the changes I'm making are permanent. Which, BTW, they are - learning from your mistakes is damned well the BEST way to learn. And they are mistakes that I'll NEVER make again.
I know that this can't go on for much longer, but what I'm doing right now is also moving things in the right direction. Albeit slowly.
Man, I'd love her to read some of this (Cadesmom's posts definitely spring to mind) and maybe I'll ask her. I know she'll probably be pissed that I've written it all down here, though.
Would any of you be PO'd to find your SO writing in a forum like this? I guess I'm doing it for the right reasons...
I think my H saw some of my posts when I first started coming here. I was a computer virgin LOL and didn't delete the history and know he'd been checking the history. He told me he was a very private person and didn't like discussing what he considered intimate details with friends. Guess he wasn't too thrilled at me discussing worldwide!!!!!
I really don't care if he does read anything I've written and it can be helpful for some. I wish he would have come to a forum like this and maybe seen it was okay to be more open about desires.
You know maybe instead of worrying about it all you should just go for it. I mean when your kissing touching etc just go that step further. I mean just get in there quickly while the moment is there without giving her time to say no. I'm not suggesting force but just following through. If she pushes your hand away keep going and be loving and tel her how beautiful she feels to you. If she really pushes you off and it feels wrong then obviously you have to stop but maybe she really wants YOU to take things further.
I don't know what the right thing is for your wife but I do know the wrong thing is to continue like this. You will almost certainly have an affair at some point.
You know maybe instead of worrying about it all you should just go for it.
Yeah, I do tend to back off at the first sign of resistance. Force of habit now, and probably not a particularly attractive thing to do, eh? You might be right, though. Hmm.
Originally Posted By: shmagic
You will almost certainly have an affair at some point.
Tempting as it is, I'd like to think that I'd end things here before it got to that stage. However, reality doesn't always work out how you want it to, eh. But... I am having a constant battle internally with the thought/lure of an A - because when you're in my position, having an A really does look like a super quick and super easy solution to the problem.
Totally, totally, totally the wrong solution, I know, but I can begin to see why people choose to do it.
A.C., you hit a good point up there and, it's funny, because I kind of had a bad day yesterday and last evening I started thinking "Kel, you're NOT completely innocent in all of this either." Yes, I feel hurt that he cheated, wanted a D, said & did things that hurt terribly, but HE felt hurt all along too. HE was hurting for a long time w/ me being emotionally distant, etc. Now, did I have my 'reasons?' Yes, but I probably could have either worked through them or, EVEN BETTER, tried to communicate how I was feeling to him better and maybe he could have even helped me w/ my issues that led to the way I was feeling and my lack of wanting any sort of intimacy w/ him.
So, there it is. Yes, we've been 'wronged,' but they too were hurting and so it's kind of onward & upward.
I think what you have is ultimately an awesome M. Hopefully the lack of sex part will resolve, but if you look at all of the threads around here in some of the other forums, you will see that we truly are a few of the lucky ones. We've made it back from separation and have a 2nd chance to make our M's good ones. That's what I plan to do.
I think you do need to just maybe sit back and look at the positives going for you and your M and I think you will see that in the big picture, things have gotten better, a lot better, and that, like I said, maybe the lack of intimacy issue will resolve as well. Time, patience, my friend. Don't throw away something that is potentially good before it has ripened.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I really have no clue what the LD girls were talking about at their lunch tables but I always imagined it to be something lame along the lines of "Then he tried to put his tongue in my mouth, It was totally grotesque but the ring he gave me for my birthday cost $329 so I let him."
I couldn't decide if you were serious or partly joking. Anyway...
I don't think that the term "LD" really applies to high school girls. Most people don't have a clue about who they are in high school, nevermind what kind of sex drive they have. Many adult women are clueless (as I was). Not all girls that didn't have sex in high school are LD.
I didn't have sex in high school, although I did enjoy French kissing my boyfriend senior year -- and he was a poor college freshman, so he never bought me anything. LOL All the kissing I did was of the "French" variety--I thought that was the norm. I'm sure some of my friends had sex, but we never talked about it. I sat at a lunch table with girls and guys (band geeks) and I don't remember any sex talk there either. I suspect we had more of a romantic notion of guys/sex/marriage/etc. so we'd be more likely to talk about meeting "the guy" than details about what we did (or might do) with him.
The only convo I do remember was one I overheard on the band bus. A guy was talking about his girlfriend with a female friend. Say, would that be considered an EA?
Your quote above sounds like something Anna Nicole Smith might have said (with zeros added to the figure of course) about her octogenarian sugardaddy. LOL
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It used to be the case that when LDW would talk about what sex fiends their husband's were it would make me depressed and I would be quiet on the topic around them. Now, I'm straight-up "Really, I have a very high sex drive myself. I feel sorry for your H because it s*cks to not get laid enough." Then they'll backtrack and say stuff like "Well, sometimes I'll give him a BJ if I'm not in the mood." It's just a little public service I am doing for the HDH of the world when I get the opportunity.
Well, in an indirect way, this was the message I got from my HD cyberfriends, that got me thinking about our SL. If I heard your comment it would make an impression on me. But there are women like those cac mentioned, who diss their husbands and consider them to be "pigs" because they want sex. I honestly don't think there is much hope for them unless their Hs threaten to walk. These women were on the same board I was, reading the same posts from the HD girls that I was. Only difference was that I was intrigued and the others were disgusted. Ugh. And if they have such a negative attitude about sex, have a kid already and are desperately trying for another through infertility treatments, their Hs might as well give up all hope. Or find someone else.
