searching patience with H / finding myself #9

[Reincarnated]

Not respect him...that is something that he has actually said. I have to think about that, because I don't see it that way right now.

I have always thought that we were of equal intelligence, just differently intelligent. I am book smart, an academic. He is a natural leader, a great manager, good memory, can look at something mechanical and just gets it. He built a whole wing on our house for my mother's apt with no formal training. He is funny and warm-hearted. People who know him call him Superman, because he is the one everyone calls for help, from electrical to cars to cutting down trees...Jack of all trades, I guess, and always willing to run out to help a friend; almost giving to a fault.

There have been many times in our R when I look at him and can't believe that this incredible man is with me.

We have always filled these certain roles. He does all of the above, plus is a very involved, loving Dad. I have always done the finances (until recently, but still handle the taxes), research into anything financial and medical. I read every book I can get my hands on about a topic (remember What to Expect while Expecting?). He doesn't read anything longer than a news article.

When my sister got fibro, I read about it, went to all of the dr. appts, and helped my mom handle it. When my D was born with no soft spot in her skull to allow rapid growth, I researched it and made the decisions as to which doctor we would use and was surgery method (a very rare disorder, and diff drs. do different things). H trusted me with that awesome responsibility. When my dad died, I took care of all of the arrangements and financials to get Mom started on her own. When she got sick, I went with her to all of her appts.

We just filled in the places that we were better at. Not repect him? I always saw him as the hero, the protector and lover, kind and giving...the perpetual Boy Scout. My IC told me this week that I had to take him off of the pedestal that I had put him on...how can that be, and me not show my respect for him?

I guess I followed that pattern with this mess, too. Read as much as I could get my hands on, including scholarly articles in medical pubs (the statistics and graphs made my head hurt). But this time, H was not interested in what I was able to find.

For the first time in our R, he doesn't trust me. It feels so strange...
So much about him lately is so foreign; the lies, the anger, the selfishness, the stubborness...
I remember reading in Gottman that he said men should learn to accept influence by their wives (citing emotional connections and communication skills that come easier to women, and nuturing / reduced risk taking and healthy behaviors, if I remember correctly). H did that, until now.

He says that this is the first time that he has ever stood up to me, that he always gave in...came at me with "narcissistic bully" a few weeks ago. Crap, maybe I am, at least in part (I don't know how aware I am of how I am viewed by others...). But I never meant to be; I would have welcomed his debating me. Couldn't he have picked some other hard line to take, instead of our marriage?!

I guess that is why I have to completely hand over the reins to him...he has to see that he has the power, here, over his life and choices. I must have had too much influence over him for too long...

I so much want to be equals in a relationship with him...but he has to think that I can do that, and he has to want to go there. More reflection...

[Reincarnated]

Oh, and I did email the prof. Have to have the work in by Sunday...what a crappy week to try to get this done. I already had an incomplete from last semester...might have to get two more...

[Reincarnated]

I am at the library. I am wondering if it was a mistake to suggest and carry out the new schedule, so we wouldn't be around each other...

It is so hard to guess at what would be best to do. He was going to ask me if he could stay and be committed to the family, but not the M. Would that have left the door open? Would it have shown how much I was willing to be the doormat for a change, accept his influence and decisions?

Or would it just show him that I am a pathetic, desperate loser?
He wanted to think about the schedule for the summer, and I said we could try it for a few days...

If he is codependant and enmeshed, why the rejection; why does he see being alone as a better option?

I do want to save my marriage...isn't that what we are all here for?

Detach...detach....detach....detach....

[ItsKat]

(((Donna)))

Just checking in w/ you over here. I want to thank you for sharing so much. I can identify so much with many of the thoughts, feelings and frustrations that you write about. I also have trouble with letting my defensiveness and emotions take over and I have benefitted a lot from some of the advice on this thread.

Thinking of you.

[oldtimer]

"If he is codependant and enmeshed, why the rejection; why does he see being alone as a better option?"

Because he cannot get away from making everything you do about him and everything he does about you without getting away from you.

"came at me with "narcissistic bully" a few weeks ago"

You are not a narcissistic bully. Again, this is H being too weak to maintain his sense of self and enforce his own boundaries. He despises himself for that weakness and projects it onto you. NO, suggesting this to him WILL NOT HELP. Indeed, it would make it harder for it ever to seem like a possibility to him.

H is defining himself by resisting you, pushing you away, rejecting you, not accepting what you say, REBELLING. But, you see, that rebelling is still all about YOU. It is still codependence, it just feels better because he is asserting himself. He feels heady with power that he felt he didn't have for so long.

But, it really isn't power, or at least healthy power, it still depends on the enmeshment. Everytime you explicitly or implicitly share a wish about how you want him to be, what you want him to think, what you want him to do, he has to push HARD against it to maintain a flicker of the sense of self he wants to hold onto.

When you share your disappointment that he doesn't think anything has changed, he has to make DAMN sure nothing has changed.

Anyway, with respect to the schedule, quit second guessing yourself. Your boundary is about YOU. Quit trying to manage H with it. Quit making it about him. You aren't psychic. Just take care of yourself.

[oldtimer]

You can't play tug-of-war with one person.

[Reincarnated]

OK, so I stick with the schedule for now. The weekend is different, anyway, because we are both home. We didn't get into that too much; I had initially said maybe we could take turns taking the kids away somewhere, like camping or visiting...I guess that I will leave that in his ball park.

Does he need to hear, Yes, Dear, more often? That always seemed like head games to me--people who do that just find another way to get what they want. I would rather talk it through and come to a compromise. Sounds like something we would have to learn about, since the dynamic hasn't even been that way (apparently).

How do I show him that willingness to work on this through actions alone?

I have to just leave it all where it lies right now, don't I? God, that is a scary thought...not because I want to control him, but I want control over myself and my future.

I am listening when you all say that my future does not rest in H's hands, but the future I WANTED and DREAMED of does.

It made me feel better to get the financials in order. Maybe I have to plan on paper what this alternative future might look like to ease some of the panic...
Like I said, I went through death scenarios, but never D ones. I feel so lost.

I think of that song, Jesus Take the Wheel, I'm Letting Go...and I am spinning around in an empty room, looking for someone to take the wheel, to help.
This is part of the codependency thing, too, I think. I have never had to do anything entirely on my own (except labor).

I thought that was what spouses were supposed to do for each other, be partners through this life. I thought that was what I was doing...so much of my reality was not his experience of it. There were two truths here.

[oldtimer]

"Does he need to hear, Yes, Dear, more often? That always seemed like head games to me--people who do that just find another way to get what they want. I would rather talk it through and come to a compromise. Sounds like something we would have to learn about, since the dynamic hasn't even been that way "

DONNA, THERE IS NOTHING TO WORK OUT OR WORK THROUGH RIGHT NOW. If you reconcile, then you can try different things. For now, quit trying to fix an R that does not exist.

"I have to just leave it all where it lies right now, don't I?"

Yes.

[Reincarnated]

Hey, and I think the boundary was not a terrible idea, after all. I am not a crying basket case right now; a huge improvement over the beginning of the week.

We were all out when H got home today. When we got in, I was a whirlwind of action, putting food away from shopping, getting my stuff together. H sat in the dining room, like he was ready to talk. I told him a few choices he could make for dinner (I said that I would keep up the house for the summer and he could write up a shopping list of things he would need to make dinners with for my weekly shopping trip, but this was too last minute). I tried to not come off as angry, snotty, sad, happy, anything--just kept things matter-of-fact. Said a quick bye to the kids and was gone without a backwards glance.

Oops, he just called. Where is S's helmet for BMX? On the front seat of your truck...
Then he says, you didn't tell the kids about this? Yeah, I did. S had told me (when he was trying to fix everything) that we all just neeed a vacation from each other for a while, go to our own corners and work it out in our heads (smart kid). So, I told him today that we thought it was a great idea and are trying it for a few days.

H says that D is asking him if I am upset, why didn't I go with them, etc. She is younger...forgets things she doesn't want to know about, hears what she wants to hear...H said that he just wanted to know what "we" were telling them.

This is his mess, and I have to handle it, even when I'm not there...my poor babies.

I liked her version of what was happening. After she talked with H, she told me that he said we were not getting along but were working really hard on fixing it and it would all be better in a few weeks.

Wouldn't that be nice?

[NikB]

Does he need to hear, Yes, Dear, more often?

DOES he? No... as Oldtimer said, stop fixing what isn't there.

DID he? Maybe... does it matter NOW? No.

How do I show him that willingness to work on this through actions alone?

You don't.

I have to just leave it all where it lies right now, don't I? God, that is a scary thought...not because I want to control him, but I want control over myself and my future.

I know - boy do I know, I realized it when H left and I realize it now that we may or may not successfully reconcile. It's scary, but it's your new reality. If controlling yourself and your future involves your H being in it no matter what - then yes, you ARE trying to control him. I know it sounds so weird and wrong since you thought you were in it together, forever.. but it's how things are now.

I am listening when you all say that my future does not rest in H's hands, but the future I WANTED and DREAMED of does.

I recommend that you write down all the good and bad about it, and give yourself some time to mourn for your "dream future." Then work on dreaming up a whole new one.