Weirdness in the Hap household

[haphazard]

Thanks BF!

Re the whole debate about being persuaded. Not knowing if you really feel like it, thinking you might be seducible but not sure, not 100% in the mood when he initiates etc.

The dynamic of that scenario is very complicated. First of all the man wants it, the woman was thinking about something else entirely when he starts coming on to her and he wants to distract her attention away from whatever she is doing/thinking. So she starts off feeling a)neutral, not particularly horny and b)a very tiny bit irritated about being distracted. But if she is a loving kind of W who generally has a high SD and understands the importance of being willing she will try and get her sexy hat on. So the next step is to try to feel sexy, but there has already been a beat missed and the H picks up on that, and thinks oh-oh she's not really into it. Which is true, but that doesn't mean she couldn't be persuaded - like Crazy Eddie says. But now in addition to trying to feel sexy she is also aware that he's aware etc. He starts to back-pedal a bit, she starts to feel a shift of responsibility on to HER to make this a sexy encounter - to say no,no it's OK come on I am up for it really (even if she still isn't quite feeling that way). There are just so many ways for the whole thing to not work out.

So what would work? What would the man like to hear/see from the woman when he first starts to make his moves? Remembering of course that she will skip a beat.

Would he like to hear: I wasn't really in a sexy mood, but you could try and change my mind.

But even that somehow is a deal that you can't easily go back on. If you still don't get in the mood it is like you are either saying "you are completely useless at getting me in the mood" or "I am completely heartless and don't want to be the mood even for your sake"

To be honest the easy way out for me when I'm not in the mood is to give H a bj. But sometimes he feels uncomfortable with that - like he has taken without giving and I wasn't even in the mood in the first place so to be such a taker is even worse. But it's not like that, it's worse to have someone try and arouse you when you don't really feel like it, than just to give them pleasure without having to get into that zone yourself. And the strange thing is I often feel much sexier and warmer to wards him AFTER I've given him a bj than before.

It's just occurred to me that H has been the one acting LD all this time, surely he must have felt the same pressures coming from me. Hmm - maybe that's worth having a conversation about.

Fran

[Crazy Eddie]

So what would work? What would the man like to hear/see from the woman when he first starts to make his moves? Remembering of course that she will skip a beat.

Would he like to hear: I wasn't really in a sexy mood, but you could try and change my mind.

But even that somehow is a deal that you can't easily go back on. If you still don't get in the mood it is like you are either saying "you are completely useless at getting me in the mood" or "I am completely heartless and don't want to be the mood even for your sake"

But the real meaning, from your point of view, is that you'd love to get in the mood, but you just can't.

This can be hard for a man to understand. I understand it perfectly nowadays, because "sexual side effects" of my medication has forced me to walk a mile in those shoes. I've been in the situation of wanting desperately to have wild passionate sex with a woman that I thoroughly enjoy doing it with and simply being unable to work up that certain something. And by "certain something" I mean "boner".

I've had a woman say "is it working?" and wonder what I could possibly say to that. I've gone to bed not knowing whether I'd get in the mood when I started kissing her, and then felt the joy and relief of feeling myself very much in the mood a few minutes later.

By the way, the answer to "is it working" is "we'll find out. Either way, don't worry, you're gonna be getting something good."

Now, of course, having walked that mile, it makes a lot more sense when it takes a while for her to get revved up, and when she doesn't quite get revved up the way that I had hoped she would. It helps me give the correct response to that situation in my mind, which is "Hmmm... that didn't quite work. Better luck next time".

To be honest the easy way out for me when I'm not in the mood is to give H a bj. But sometimes he feels uncomfortable with that - like he has taken without giving and I wasn't even in the mood in the first place so to be such a taker is even worse. But it's not like that, it's worse to have someone try and arouse you when you don't really feel like it, than just to give them pleasure without having to get into that zone yourself. And the strange thing is I often feel much sexier and warmer to wards him AFTER I've given him a bj than before.

Again, I didn't get that until I was forced to experience it for myself. Not having yet been in the position of being unable to get pleasured even though I wanted to, and having it occur to me that she'd think it was because I wasn't hot for her (and, wondering if on some level she wouldn't be right, and the odd experience of not even knowing for sure with whom the problem lay), I didn't get that being pressured to enjoy it for my sake so I wouldn't feel guilty was way worse than giving me something just for my pleasure.

It's just occurred to me that H has been the one acting LD all this time, surely he must have felt the same pressures coming from me. Hmm - maybe that's worth having a conversation about.

Fran

[mrsc]

The dynamic of that scenario is very complicated. First of all the man wants it, the woman was thinking about something else entirely when he starts coming on to her and he wants to distract her attention away from whatever she is doing/thinking. So she starts off feeling a)neutral, not particularly horny and b)a very tiny bit irritated about being distracted. But if she is a loving kind of W who generally has a high SD and understands the importance of being willing she will try and get her sexy hat on.

Wow, I can really relate to this, and I'm not known for being HD. I've experienced this quite a bit, actually.

I also have hesitated to initiate unless I was actually feeling horny, because there was always the fear that I couldn't pull it off once I started it.

So the next step is to try to feel sexy, but there has already been a beat missed and the H picks up on that, and thinks oh-oh she's not really into it. Which is true, but that doesn't mean she couldn't be persuaded - like Crazy Eddie says. But now in addition to trying to feel sexy she is also aware that he's aware etc. He starts to back-pedal a bit, she starts to feel a shift of responsibility on to HER to make this a sexy encounter - to say no,no it's OK come on I am up for it really (even if she still isn't quite feeling that way). There are just so many ways for the whole thing to not work out.

Yep. And this is where the feelings of panic would start, which sure does not help an LD woman who is trying to get her sexy hat on!

So what would work? What would the man like to hear/see from the woman when he first starts to make his moves? Remembering of course that she will skip a beat.

Would he like to hear: I wasn't really in a sexy mood, but you could try and change my mind.

But even that somehow is a deal that you can't easily go back on. If you still don't get in the mood it is like you are either saying "you are completely useless at getting me in the mood" or "I am completely heartless and don't want to be the mood even for your sake"

Eek.

To be honest the easy way out for me when I'm not in the mood is to give H a bj. But sometimes he feels uncomfortable with that - like he has taken without giving and I wasn't even in the mood in the first place so to be such a taker is even worse. But it's not like that, it's worse to have someone try and arouse you when you don't really feel like it, than just to give them pleasure without having to get into that zone yourself. And the strange thing is I often feel much sexier and warmer to wards him AFTER I've given him a bj than before.

Right again. I have done and felt the same way. Once the decision is made to just pleasure H, it takes all the pressure off me. The fear is gone. The anxiety is gone. I can just relax and make him feel good.

It's just occurred to me that H has been the one acting LD all this time, surely he must have felt the same pressures coming from me. Hmm - maybe that's worth having a conversation about.

I'm sure there is truth to this. Good observation, Fran!

[mrsc]

So what would work? What would the man like to hear/see from the woman when he first starts to make his moves? Remembering of course that she will skip a beat.

Would he like to hear: I wasn't really in a sexy mood, but you could try and change my mind.

But even that somehow is a deal that you can't easily go back on. If you still don't get in the mood it is like you are either saying "you are completely useless at getting me in the mood" or "I am completely heartless and don't want to be the mood even for your sake"

But the real meaning, from your point of view, is that you'd love to get in the mood, but you just can't.

This can be hard for a man to understand. I understand it perfectly nowadays, because "sexual side effects" of my medication has forced me to walk a mile in those shoes. I've been in the situation of wanting desperately to have wild passionate sex with a woman that I thoroughly enjoy doing it with and simply being unable to work up that certain something. And by "certain something" I mean "boner".

Yep. I've experienced those side effects too. In no way am I suggesting that there's any comparison between my inability to O and a man's ability to get an erection. But, I am saying that my repeated inability to O while on SSRIs was certainly discouraging and did nothing positive for my already low drive.

I've had a woman say "is it working?" and wonder what I could possibly say to that.

Yikes.

I've gone to bed not knowing whether I'd get in the mood when I started kissing her, and then felt the joy and relief of feeling myself very much in the mood a few minutes later.

I've had the good fortune of having this happen, but I've also had the opposite happen more times than I would have liked.

By the way, the answer to "is it working" is "we'll find out. Either way, don't worry, you're gonna be getting something good."

Great answer.

Now, of course, having walked that mile, it makes a lot more sense when it takes a while for her to get revved up, and when she doesn't quite get revved up the way that I had hoped she would. It helps me give the correct response to that situation in my mind, which is "Hmmm... that didn't quite work. Better luck next time".

Another great answer.

To be honest the easy way out for me when I'm not in the mood is to give H a bj. But sometimes he feels uncomfortable with that - like he has taken without giving and I wasn't even in the mood in the first place so to be such a taker is even worse. But it's not like that, it's worse to have someone try and arouse you when you don't really feel like it, than just to give them pleasure without having to get into that zone yourself. And the strange thing is I often feel much sexier and warmer to wards him AFTER I've given him a bj than before.

Again, I didn't get that until I was forced to experience it for myself. Not having yet been in the position of being unable to get pleasured even though I wanted to, and having it occur to me that she'd think it was because I wasn't hot for her (and, wondering if on some level she wouldn't be right, and the odd experience of not even knowing for sure with whom the problem lay), I didn't get that being pressured to enjoy it for my sake so I wouldn't feel guilty was way worse than giving me something just for my pleasure.

Interesting.

[stu]

Commenting on this series of posts, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in these types of reactions to the whole LD/HD dance. After a few years it starts to get to you, it's not the old spontaneous event anymore, more of a mental chess game of thinking through the outcomes beforehand and planning your moves. Ack..

Used to be "hey you wanna do it?" Not much of that lately.

[haphazard]

Crazy Eddie, it was really helpful to hear things from your point of view when you have been LD due to meds.

I didn't get that being pressured to enjoy it for my sake so I wouldn't feel guilty was way worse than giving me something just for my pleasure.

This is the key. So many people here complain about "duty sex" or "pity sex". I do get what they mean and understand why it is unsatisfying to them, but maybe we need to let go of the mindset that we are not desirable just because out SO's don't fancy it right now, and be happy that they can do something to give us pleasure. It kind of reminds me of the way my H will try to get me to order desert in a restaurant because he wants one. I am not really a desert person - haven't got a sweet tooth, so I don't usually want one. Then he will say "now I can't have one". No matter how I try to convince him that it makes no difference if I want one or not - he won't have one unless I do.

Mrs Cac4, thanks for your comments. I really had to think hard about the dynamic. I guess it helps to have seen both sides of the story, and so close together in time too.

Stu: So if you were to say "hey you wanna do it?" what would she say? "Not tonight, I've got a headache". The response is "Your loss" and a wink.

Thinking more about the strange LD'ness that has overtaken me, it is not that I am low drive it is more that I don't necessarily always want to be the object, sometimes I would prefer to be the subject. H has been behaving kind of classic sex-starved HD lately hounding me with constant lascivous looks, fondlings, remarks etc. Whilst it is a whole lot better than where we were it is such an extreme change that it has me feeling slightly nervous.

But here's a thing, last night the usual overtures. Then because I wasn't really reacting he said "are you tired?" So I said "No, I'm just a bit fed up that you never give me a chance for it to be my idea, I can never get a grope in edgeways"

So he said - "Oh OK" and left me alone and just lay there. Then said "How long a gap do I have to leave - a week?" I just said "we'll see". There was no sense of tension or disappointment in his voice.

A sense of relaxation and no pressure came over me, and sure enough in about a minute I felt desire. The rest is private.

I know, I know, what a fickle thing is woman. One minute wanting to be pursued and chased next minute wanting to be ignored so we can pursue. All I can say - and it has been said before - is ring the changes. Don't just keep doing the same old same old. If there is one big turn off for a woman (and probably for a man too) it is predictability.

Fran

[Crazy Eddie]

Crazy Eddie, it was really helpful to hear things from your point of view when you have been LD due to meds.

Glad I could help. One other weird thing I forgot to mention. Nowadays I can get erections just fine, thanks to a little more help from our friends in the pharmaceutical industry. Each dose lasts about 24-36 hours. During that time, I can get as many erections as I need, but I can generally have a maximum of one (1) orgasm.

So if we're going at it again the next day, or I had done a "test deployment" at my computer to see if the medicine kicked in yet and carried it a bit too far, I'm just not going to be able to finish. The first few times, this really threw her for a loop... she went nuts trying to push me over the edge, and eventually I'd had enough and had to tell her it just wasn't going to happen, and she took it a bit personally, as if she had failed me. And I saw that I must have driven her completely nuts for years by thinking that way. Again, I'm amazed that she was ever willing to have sex with me after a while. Anyway, I was able to get her to understand, deep down, that it was the meds and not her, and it helps of course that not being able to orgasm is so highly unusual for a guy that it just has to have something to do with medication.

Maybe I should adopt a feminine nom de plume and start an advice column.

This is the key. So many people here complain about "duty sex" or "pity sex". I do get what they mean and understand why it is unsatisfying to them, but maybe we need to let go of the mindset that we are not desirable just because out SO's don't fancy it right now, and be happy that they can do something to give us pleasure.

Yes! We are desirable whether our SO's are in the mood or not. And if we're not desirable, it's certainly not our SO's fault, and only we can fix it, and pressuring the SO to either desire us or console us for not being desirable or even show us how to be desirable won't accomplish anything useful.

But here's a thing, last night the usual overtures. Then because I wasn't really reacting he said "are you tired?" So I said "No, I'm just a bit fed up that you never give me a chance for it to be my idea, I can never get a grope in edgeways"

So he said - "Oh OK" and left me alone and just lay there. Then said "How long a gap do I have to leave - a week?" I just said "we'll see". There was no sense of tension or disappointment in his voice.

A sense of relaxation and no pressure came over me, and sure enough in about a minute I felt desire. The rest is private.

Wow. No tension or disappointment? Where did this guy come from?

Mr. Hap, I've got a feeling that you're lurking here. And, I'll tell you right now, Way To Go! Now you're getting it!

[haphazard]

He could well be lurking Eddie, he knows my screen-name because I told it to him. I doubt it though, because I pull absolutely no punches here and he is not someone to tolerate anything even ever so slightly negative said about him. I cannot imagine him being quite so chipper as he is at the moment if he was reading here. Whatever.

We have been talking a lot more lately and it helps hugely.

Wow. No tension or disappointment? Where did this guy come from?

Well we have been doing it a fair bit recently so I guess he was prepared to skip a night for the sake of the education in what might help me be just as eager as he.

Sex is just such a weird feedback loop it's partly about ourselves and our own egos and partly about the other person's and it can't just be about rubbing body parts together and having a good time - sigh if only. I guess it is one of the few things that one person can give another which involves them so completely. It's like that old joke about the commitment required to make eggs and bacon being entirely different for the pig than it is for the hen. Now I'm no way saying we have to have the pig's level of commitment, but "can we ML" is a different question to "would you mind getting me a glass of water". Other things that involve having a partner - such as playing tennis aren't regarded as being so exclusive, if one partner doesn't want to play you can always find another. And added to that because you want to give as much as you want to get, your gift is being refused which adds insult to injury.

None of this was complicated in our house before the kids came along, I guess that was the first time I truly did feel just much too drained to even want to contemplate doing anything other than sleep once I was in bed. Saying no just opens such a massive can of worms - if only I'd known then what I know now.

Fran

[believing_isaiah43]

wow, i love those last two paragraphs. Good thoughts, thanks so much

[OG_Lou]

I think every LD person needs to understand these statements. The sad part I don't think many of the LD people do understand the HD's wants.

Fran Sex is just such a weird feedback loop it's partly about ourselves and our own egos and partly about the other person's and it can't just be about rubbing body parts together and having a good time - sigh if only.

And added to that because you want to give as much as you want to get, your gift is being refused which adds insult to injury.

Saying no just opens such a massive can of worms - if only I'd known then what I know now.



Too many times I heard sex was just rubbing two things together