Letting Go of My WAW

[SuperDad]

Nomo,
If you get a chance, could you comment?

I again did not say anything about our sitch to W this morning. Just acted as if...everything was on even keel. Not sure if I should do anything at all or just give her space and see if she follows through on her decision to not take the job.

SD

[theoden]

SD,

Rough waters. Still plenty of hope.

This is what makes me think separation is premature for you guys: she doesn't know what she wants. She's not willing to move to Texas, come hell or highwater.

The main form of power you have right now is to say, "no" when you don't want something:

"I want to take the kids to Texas right now and I want you to buy us a house." No

"I want to sleep with other men." Not in this house.

"I want you to move out so I can have space." No.

Think of her as a spoiled teenager.

Then tell her what you want.

You can tell her, "I want to move to Texas, and this is my time frame. It may not match yours, but if we cooperate, I think we can both get what we are looking for, regardless of the outcome of our relationship."

Lay boundaries. Remain strong and stable. Keep the door open.


--Theoden

[Nomopo]

Hello Friend!

First, I am really looking forward to seeing you this week. Let's touch base on details tomorrow.

Second, I hate that ? in your name. When are you going to lose that???

Third, sorry I lost track of you this weekend. Lot going on myself, and I don't follow you as easily on that new forum.

OK, well my friend, I think that you have had an EXCELLENT development. Not out of the woods, by any stretch, and I'm not sure whatthe answers are for going forward, but let me give some thoughts.

One of them was a pottery turtle for the garden. At this point, I was thinking, "what the he!! is she thinking giving me something for the yard right before we tell the kids that they are moving away."

I chuckled at this. I got some yard art too. It's pretty cool (I'll show you when you come over), but I was like "what are you thinking? Oh yeah, that's right, they're not thinking.

A few minutes later, the kids are out of the room and I am chilling at the b'fast table w/ my cuppa joe. Out of the blue she says: "I am not going to take the job in TX." I was completely stunned, shocked, and speechless.

My jaw dropped too! But I think it is fantastic.

She explained, tearily, that she could not stand to tear apart what the kids have here, take them away from their dad, and also have them live a much less comfortable life. I was still in shock and really did not know what to say. I mumbled something like "I can't believe you just said that and am not really prepared to talk about this just yet."

Hindsight is 20/20, but if you see an opening (don't force it), you might tell her that you know how hard it was for her to say that and thanks.

there is no clear, easy answer that will make all of us happy.

What is the question? She told you she wasn't going to Texas. Good. Now what question did/do you have to answer? When she read your reaction to mena you wanted her to go, you cleared that up. So what is left to say, other than maybe what I suggested or MAYBE (not sure here), that you are glad she decided to stay [for the kids?]. Are you glad?

She went into the living room and I gave her a few minutes. When I joined her, she was still teary. I gave her a hug around the shoulders which she did not at all respond to (didn't expect her too) and said again that I did not have a good answer and that I understood how hard it was. We talked a bit but mostly just contemplated quietly.

Again, what are you thinking you need to answer. When you say you talked a bit, what about?

After all this, we went to IHOP as a family for Father's Day. We came home and I spent time with the kids, swimming, walk in the woods, etc. W took a nap and went outside to talk on the phone to her dad, sister in Austin and some friends (and maybe others), while the kids and I were inside. Later she locked herself in her room and sent email/IM.

All i have to say about this is sounds like you had fun with the kids, and that you are worrying too much about who she was talking to or emailing with. Just my opinion, but you can't control those two things so don't let them cloud your thoughts. They bring up emotions that keep you from focusing on you and executing your plan.

She was mostly standoffish, but then ordered in burgers for Father's day dinner and went with the kids to pick it up. Dinner was pleasant, with typical convo, no stress. She cleaned up the kitchen and then picked up the house. I thanked her and said that was a nice F. Day present. She said it was nothing.

All sounds fine. Do you read something into her alleged standoffishness about you? You shouldn't.

After dinner, we watched the end of the golf tourney (W even paid attention and commented on how buff Tiger has gotten.)

Small positive? She never paid attention before? Maybe she was trying to connect. Like the time my W asked about UT's recruiting. I couldn't believe it.

W was sitting on the couch watching TV. I got my stuff ready for a.m. workout and then sat down in a chair by her. She looked really tired and not at all happy.

Of course, you didn't expect her to be happy. This is tought stuff. She really wanted to go to Austin. Which is why I see it as so positive, personally.

I was thinking she might want to discuss something further, but alas no.

Alas? This was a good thing. You had enough for one day. You handled it well. Anything else would likely have been too much stress.

she went to her room and has spent 1/2 hour sending email/IM.

You just can't worry about this right now. Maybe later, but not while you are on such unsure footing. Focus on you, what you are doing and the reactions it gets from her. The adjust or continue your behavior accordingly.

I am totally unsure what she will do tomorrow concerning the job in TX and my feeling is that I am probably better not saying anything, but am worried that this will be a missed opportunity.

I don't THINK the opportunity will just appear and then disappear quickly to be gone forever. So don't put too much pressure on yourself. But, it would not surprise me at all if she waffles on this decision. So be prepared for that and how you will handle it. You will want to keep your emotions in check. Don't argue with her if she says again that she is thinking of going. I'm thinking something like "It sounds like you still are fuguring some stuff out, and that is fine. You need to take your time and decide what you think is best, and I will respect your choices. Part of me wants to tell you that I think you staying in Fl while I finish X is best for us and our family, but another part of me knows that that is putitng pressure on you and you have to make this decision for yourself." (I like the "part of me" trick my C taught me. It's a way to get out what you probably shouldn't say in a less threatening way.)

Hope that helps!
Nomopo

[Nomopo]

She's not willing to move to Texas, come hell or highwater.

Unless I missed something, I'm not sure we know this yet.

You can tell her, "I want to move to Texas, and this is my time frame. It may not match yours, but if we cooperate, I think we can both get what we are looking for, regardless of the outcome of our relationship."

Lay boundaries. Remain strong and stable. Keep the door open.

I agree boundaries are entirely appropriate at times, but I'm nots sure this is about boundaries. She is deciding what she wants to do, and what boundary can you set about her moving to Texas. Can you really stop her? What line would you draw? You can't really say, "no, you have to go ahead and move to Austin unless you commit to ending all contact with OM." How are you going to enforce that?

Nomopo

[theoden]

SD cannot stop his wife from moving to Texas, but he doesn't need to enable her financially to do what is not in his best interests.

He doesn't have to buy a house for her.

He can state what he wants and what he is and isn't willing to do to enable her to get on her feet and become financially independent.

--theoden

[Nomopo]

All true. But I believe there are some posts earlier about the choices SD made about how to approach this separation, and he consciously chose not to get "ugly." (Let me know if I am confusing threads.) Setting boundaries for what really matters is not getting ugly per se, but p-ulling back the financial help he has offered previously her (reneging on that agreement, making her feel threatened and vulnerable) will likely turn things to a more volatile state.

SD just got one of the most positive things I've heard in a while in his effort to reach his ultimate goal - his WAW is struggling with leaving him to move to Texas, and had said she wasn't going to do it. Correct me if I am wrong SD, but isn't that part of what you want - her to stay in FL (and to keep your kids here)? I'm not saying everything is better now or even that you are on the road to fixing/saving your M, necessarily. I'm just saying you got a great development, and your next step can nurture that development or shut it down. The next step isn't obvious to me, but drawing a boundary where one isn't needed/warranted may not get you closer to your ultimate goal. Keep thinking about it.

[SuperDad]

Guys,
Thanks so much for the feedback and input. To answer:

SD just got one of the most positive things I've heard in a while in his effort to reach his ultimate goal - his WAW is struggling with leaving him to move to Texas, and had said she wasn't going to do it. Correct me if I am wrong SD, but isn't that part of what you want - her to stay in FL (and to keep your kids here)?

Ultimate goal is a big statement. My goal is to follow my "path with heart" and to keep my family together while doing that. For now, that means that we stay in Florida. So yeah, this would be a huge breakthrough if she sticks to her decision.

Setting boundaries for what really matters is not getting ugly per se, but pulling back the financial help he has offered previously her (reneging on that agreement, making her feel threatened and vulnerable) will likely turn things to a more volatile state.

My offer to let her move was based upon my committment to do what will make me and the kids happiest in the long run, not just today or tomorrow. That means that I was willing to be away from them a lot in the next year or so and to spend a ton of $ on travel between FL and TX if that was what I needed to do to avoid a costly legal battle (in terms of emotion and $).

Originally Posted By: theoden
You can tell her, "I want to move to Texas, and this is my time frame. It may not match yours, but if we cooperate, I think we can both get what we are looking for, regardless of the outcome of our relationship."

Lay boundaries. Remain strong and stable. Keep the door open.

I agree boundaries are entirely appropriate at times, but I'm nots sure this is about boundaries. She is deciding what she wants to do, and what boundary can you set about her moving to Texas. Can you really stop her? What line would you draw? You can't really say, "no, you have to go ahead and move to Austin unless you commit to ending all contact with OM." How are you going to enforce that?

I did not tell her what to do, only what MYboundaries are:
1. I am not moving out of our house.
2. I am not willing to live with her in the same house while she openly pursues A's in front of me.

This leaves a lot of room for her to decide what she needs to do. For example:
* She can continue to email/IM to her heart's desire.
* She can get a job and move into an appartment nearby.
* She can stay in the house and wallow in self pity until she decides to take action?
* She can start to examine why she has been and is so unhappy with her life, and do something about it!

I am hoping for the later, but know I can do little about it. I know that she needs help of a therapist and am worried that she is suffering from depression. I am going to re-read the DR section on this today.

I also am glad to hear the support for just giving her space to make her decisions.

Finally, I obviously need to work much harder on my active listening skills and do a better job of validating. Will ask IC for tips on this tomorrow!

Thanks again for the support,
SD

[SuperDad]

Second, I hate that ? in your name. When are you going to lose that???

Done!

I originally put a question mark in my name because I realized that part of the reason we got to where we are was related to my focus on being "SuperDad" at the expense of my happiness and my focus on our relationship. Of course, the same applies to "SuperMom" = my W.

SD

[SuperDad]

Journaling:
Well, it was another day in paradise!

I followed my routine like nothing had changed. Went to workout in the a.m., come home for b'fast, put out garbage, got ready for work, said goodbye to the kids with hugs and ILY for them, just a curt goodbye for W. The day went by with no communication from W until I was driving home and she called to say that she was at BFFs house making dinner for our families and for a friend who broke her foot. We ate dinner as a family and then I took kids for ice cream. This was supposed to be F. Day event, but we ran out of time and space in our bellies! We then got kids ready for bed and I read to S8.

When I came out of his room, W was watching TV. I did a few chores and then sat down next to her:
SD: Did you talk to the school district today?
W: Yes, I did.
SD: What did you tell them?
W: That I was not going to take the job.
SD: (slight pause) I know that was not easy for you to do.
W: No it wasn't
SD: I appreciate how much you love the kids and that you are making them the first priority. I love them very much too. I am not sure what is going to happen next, but I know that if we make them a priority that it will turn out OK.

We then discussed plans for the summer, incl. family vacation to Texas, which we need to re-evaluation. W said that her dad is really not doing well and that she plans on traveling much more frequently back home in the future. I said that I had and still do agree to this. I avoided any more talk of future and refocused back on the near term of traveling to TX, got her input and told her I would send her an email with some ideas tomorrow after I had time to look into my work schedule.

All in all, a great baby step forward! My family will be in the same city for the next year!!! Ya-hooooooo!

On a less positive note: I noticed that she had a glass of wine before she left and surely some at BFFs house. Again, not a good sign that she is drinking more again esp. with my concern about depression. God I wish that I could just waive a wand and make all her troubles go away. I know, patience is everything.

SD



(I also noticed that she had a glass of wine before she left and surely some at BFFs house. Again, not a good sign that she is drinking more again esp. with my concern about depression)

[SuperDad]

Originally Posted By: Nomopo

Originally Posted By: SuperDad?
there is no clear, easy answer that will make all of us happy.

What is the question? She told you she wasn't going to Texas. Good. Now what question did/do you have to answer?

The question is:
How can we all be happy?

This is not just my job, but our job as parents to make sure the kids are happy and our job as people to pursue our own happiness. Right now there is no answer to this question and of course will never be until W digs deep (as I am now) and rediscovers her True Self.

For now, it's as good as I could hope for. Just waiting for the next dip in the roller coaster ride.