NikkiB #17

[NikB]

Hi all - starting a new thread as I imagine my old one will lock soon.

Here's a link to my previous thread.

[NikB]

I know it's been awhile since I posted/replied so I'll just keep this kind of general instead of person by person - but please know I appreciate every one of your posts and points.

First and foremost for any dads who read my posts - happy Father's day!! Make it a great one focused on you and your wonderful kids.

So what's been going on with me? Been having a rough week or so as you guys know who've been reading along with me. No big changes really to speak of. We've been having a really nice weekend, both separately and together, and again it's all kind of bittersweet. I just really, really feel hopeless about "us" right now (mostly down on myself).. but I'm trying hard to get that PMA back on track.

I haven't asked H more about what he meant on the "giving up on myself" comment because I don't think I'm ready to hear the answer. Trying to just kind of coast for now, get my focus back, and build those positive interactions with H when I can. I still feel a growing distance there... not sure what it's about, not sure it matters at this point either.

Friday night we had fun - went out to dinner and met some friends out at a night club to go dancing. It was kind of awkward because I think he and I were the oldest people in the club - it's a VERY young place! So it got him back on this whole kick of needing hair transplants and stuff again... how old he is, etc. But it was still a lot of fun. We played pool for a bit and he danced with me for quite a few songs - I also kind of joined in with a group of girls there and danced with them for awhile, a bit of a 180 for me, so that was fun.

I got kind of upset at one point because he was VERY obviously staring at some of the girls. I'm talking to the point of interrupting his pool shot to stare... it was embarassing. Had I been on a date I would've found an excuse to bail and gotten a cab home, it was that bad. So I was proud of myself for doing this calmly - I pulled H aside and said "Can I ask you for something?" H said "Sure, what?" I said "Can you not 'check out' all the girls in the club while you're here with me? It hurts and I'm starting to get really embarassed too." He started to say that he wasn't doing that then got a look on his face that kind of seemed like he acknowledged doing it, then said "Yeah.. I'm sorry." And was a LOT more respectful the rest of the night. So I was glad for that. Also kind of a funny moment, later in the night some kind of crazy bar fight got started and it turned into a bunch of drama. We were on the sidelines and just trying to avoid getting caught up on it, but H commented that he was glad not to be "so young and dumb" anymore (maybe maturity's not so bad sometimes eh?? thought it was funny he said that).

Saturday I went to one of those meal prep places where they cut/prep everything for you and you assemble the meals. I hadn't done that before but was always curious about it. It's my Dad's father's day gift, I hope he likes it. I was impressed with the quality of everything, it looked and smelled SO good. It's slightly more cook time than a TV dinner but it's really good, fresh food. I'd love to have done it at home but trying to get the same variety (6 very different entrees) would be tough to do! Completely funny coincidence, I ran into my stepmom there - she was getting my dad a gift cert for the SAME place, from my sister for father's day. Apparently my stepmom asked what he wanted for father's day and he asked her to come make him home cooked meals for a week (GEEZ Dad... did I mention he's not getting the DB concepts AT ALL?). I imagine he'll be kind of hurt by the gift cert from her instead of her cooking him dinner, but I hope he likes the meals. I ended up with 18 good healthy dinners for him and my sis.

So.. as I said, nothing really new to report, just kind of rambling along over here. Having a tougher time pulling myself together this time than I have in awhile, but I'm getting there.

[C_K]

Nikki

Sounds like you had some good fun

I haven't asked H more about what he meant on the "giving up on myself" comment because I don't think I'm ready to hear the answer. Trying to just kind of coast for now, get my focus back, and build those positive interactions with H when I can. I still feel a growing distance there... not sure what it's about, not sure it matters at this point either.

Try not to panic about the distance , hes probably just retreating into his cave for a while to work through things in his own head , this may not be a bad thing . He may come out feeling much better . Carry on being supportive and let him have this space.
You have shown him all the changes and keeping them up thats all you need to do.

Good luck

Dave

[Reincarnated]

Nikki--

It is good to hear that you got out for some fun together. It must be so hard to keep your head up with the tension, but you know how to do it--you just have to remember the "you" that you found! H came back because he saw that person for who she really is, and was attracted. I agree with CK that H may just be trying to get his old negative perseptions to move over to the reality, now. Even makes my head hurt...

There is a young boy at my school. We had pegged him as emotionally disturbed since he entered as a Kindergartener. Turns out that his mother told him repeatedly that he was stupid and the son of the devil. When he came to school, everyone kept telling him how smart he was, how good he was. The more we tried to reinforce him, the more he acted out. Seems that the inner picture of himself (influenced by his mother) was at such odds with what we were all telling him, that he couldn't make them match! It tore him apart for quite a while...
scary what the mind can do.

[cliffy]

Nikki,
good call on the fathers day dinners. And I am glad you are continuing to go out and have fun with H. Fantastic job letting him know that his behavior at the club was making you feel uncomfortable.
I think you sound good, and realize that H is retreating a little. I read a thought today that might make sense to you, as I train my horses with this philospophy but tend to forget it in dealing with my W. And was reminded of this in an email I got tonight.
"You can lead a mile, but you can't push an inch."
You are doing a great job of leading by example, but when we start to push to hard, back off and they will follow if the groundwork is there. Anytime I want to get a horse to do something, it has to be "his" idea. I am finding out through this DB process it is the same with our WAS.
Peace! Love! GAL!

[cliffy]

Nikki,
good call on the fathers day dinners. And I am glad you are continuing to go out and have fun with H. Fantastic job letting him know that his behavior at the club was making you feel uncomfortable.
I think you sound good, and realize that H is retreating a little. I read a thought today that might make sense to you, as I train my horses with this philospophy but tend to forget it in dealing with my W. And was reminded of this in an email I got tonight.
"You can lead a mile, but you can't push an inch."
You are doing a great job of leading by example, but when we start to push to hard, back off and they will follow if the groundwork is there. Anytime I want to get a horse to do something, it has to be "his" idea. I am finding out through this DB process it is the same with our WAS.
Peace! Love! GAL!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

that sounds like a great gift for your dad! and very ironic about his W. and ug about his asking her to make him dinners. maybe someday he'll get it.

You did a great job about talking to H about the staring problems. I'm not sure I would have been able to do that! That took a lot of courage. and it's wonderful that he respected your feelings about it.

Hey, cliffy's horse story made me also think about Michelle's story about the disabled guy who was "lazy" and wouldn't get a job, per the W. and the W was always trying to help him. Then Michelle told her to get nursing home brochures and stuff, and act like, ya, your right, you'll never be able to work again and I just have to acknowledge that and live with it. Then, he found a job shortly thereafter.

Could it be possible that good reinforcement, or encouraging, praising doesn't work for H? Could he be feeling patronized?

Cliffy and Donna, is that what you guys are thinking? or what was the purpose of the statements made?

[S.T. _I Made It!]

and, just so you know, your not going to feel like this forever Nikki. Your just having a low right now. And YOU can snap yourself out of it. and I know that you will. Surround yourself with positive people, loving people, and positive things.

[NikB]

Dave, Cliffy, Donna, ST - thanks for checking in!

Dave
I've seen you talk about the "cave" before and I like that analogy - thank you for mentioining it here because I should really think of it like that.

Thanks for the reminder about the changes, too. I got thinking about it today and one of my big changes was going out with that meetup.com group. Well, it was a singles group, so I stopped doing that once H got home. I already felt awkward about it when we were separated even though it wasn't a dating group, but I felt REALLY awkward about it when he came home. Anyway he made some kind of a comment over the weekend about me giving up all my new friends and not going out much anymore. Of all the people I met I only really made friends with one woman, the one I went out with the other night, but I realized he's right - those meetups were getting me out with other people. It was too easy to drop it when he came home - it wasn't a regular part of me quite yet.

One thing I've always admired, and told him I admire, is how great he is at making and keeping friends, staying in touch with them, etc. (well except there's that ONE I wish he'd lose contact with!! ) . Anyway I said something about not having my friend's phone number because we mostly email and he was almost "coaching" me - "You should put her number in your cell phone, then you can call her to go out and do things spontaneously. Like we could invite her to go out to the movies with us tonight if you wanted." There was more to it but you get the gist. The whole time he just sounded very serious, like this was an extremely important subject. Even when I kind of joked about it at one point (about me not thinking to put her # in my cell phone, joked "Hey I AM blond") - he got a little agitated and would repeat his point. I dunno, hard to explain, but I could definitely feel that this was very important to him. And I realized it is also important to me, too. I don't have a lot of friends to go out with, so meetup.com is kind of weird because it's always strangers - but I guess every friend starts off as a stranger eh??

So long story short, there it was right in front of my face, I lost sight of one of my most important changes. Fortunately for me, there are a number of new meetups I just found out about that started recently that are NOT singles ones but look like a lot of fun and are very active - so it will be easy for me to get back into doing that BUT without going to a singles thing.

Donna
Thanks! Yeah, I know how to stay up with the tension - seem to have forgotten for a couple of weeks, but I'm feeling better about it now. Interesting analogy about the boy you mentioned. I learned that in college psych class, and I remember thinking "No way could your mind really do that to you" - even though I know it can.

Cliffy
I love the horse analogy, thanks. My H spent a long time (he says) trying to "lead by example" in our M and I never really saw it until after the bomb. Time for me to remember to follow his lead on those things he's good at - and hope he follows mine on the things I'm doing right.

ST and cliffy
My dad liked the dinners I think, although he's been eating really unhealthy (even after the heart attack!!) and I think they looked a little "health food" for him. He doesn't seem to be taking the heart attack as the wake up call we all hoped for, but at least I know he's got a number of healthy dinners to pick from now!

ST
On my dad - "someday he'll get it" - boy do I wish that was true but I'm doubting it more than ever. Their 12 year anniversary is next week and he got her this really mushy card and tickets for them to go to a concert together (one of her favorite artists so it's a nice gesture but still... ). And you know how normally you'd give someone the pair of tickets? I think he's planning to only give her one and keep the other one. He's also upset because "I keep inviting her to go see this movie with me but she just won't commit to it." sigh. Oh and the latest one - for the last 2-3 years they've taken a week long family vacation to a dude ranch near here. My stepmom and little sis LOVE it and really bond there, Dad isn't so much into the horses so he doesn't like it as much. They had already paid for this year. Last week, Dad tried to talk her into cancelling that and taking a family vacation to Hawaii (the 3 of them) instead. Uuuuuugh. He seemed totally baffled why she said "No way" to that plan. She's even still open to him going along on the dude ranch thing if he wants, they all have dinner together every Friday after sis's dance class, and she wrote him a really nice father's day card and signed it "Love, [stepmom's name]." He has NO idea how good his sitch could be if he'd just try... GAL and fix the things she's asked him to fix, and I truly think she'd be back (and I KNOW he'd be happier).

Thanks about the staring thing. I thought it went pretty well too. It took me quite awhile to figure out how to bring it up. I probably should have done it more as a statement than a question like I did, but I think it was ok.

You know what - I hadn't even THOUGHT about that maybe the encouraging/praising is coming off as patronizing, but that could be. I don't mean it that way for sure, but that's really something to consider. Anyone have any ideas on a "180" I could do there?? Ignoring the good stuff definitely doesn't seem like a good idea to me - but there's got to be other ways to convey that he's good at something, thank him for things he's done, etc. Any ideas?? I'll try it and see what happens.

Feeling much much better today, finally. I had my plan laid out before but didn't feel very confident about it - now I do, which is a great feeling!!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

how awesome Nikki! Sounds like we're both a little perked up now! Sometimes it's just okay to be sad, mad, upset, whatever. It's an emotion and God gave us all kinds of them! So we should get to use them all sometime If we never knew what it felt like to hurt, we couldn't ever appreciate feeling really good.

I really don't know for sure if your H isn't reacting to praise in the right way. But I do remember you saying he discredited you once when you did praise him.

AND!!!! that is wonderful that you have figured out what is going wrong. From your post, I really think you hit the nail on the head, about having friends. Although I wouldn't think it was such a big deal, but your H is BIG on friends. So why wouldn't that be important to him for you to have friends. He must just be one of those guys that like to hang around people a lot. My sister's H is like that, although to the extreme of them never being alone.

Definitely find a medium on the group things. You obviously know you need to get that part of your life going again. That is good that H said "and she can come with us to movies.." Because he wants to be included with your friend-life.

you have a good night and I'm very glad you've had such a productive/educated day!