OTB, That is always my question to myself, am I just stagnating and letting the winds carry my or taking control of this sitch. There is always forward progress but it is sooo sloooooow
Cadesmom34, well it could be the subject of a good book or movie (and sometimes W and I talk about making it into one) but I'll try to give a synopsis.
I'm sometimes not very sure what are the important things that made a difference but I try. There were so many things which could have caused the trouble that I really still don't know which was the main factor or if it was all.
When we got married we made a decision to have a "negotiation" five years into the marriage. I don't think I really ever wanted kids and neither did she. But when I fell in love with her that changed. I don't think it was an overwhelming desire but there was a desire. So we decided to bring it back to the table at five years. (not wise)
When we announced our engagement my mother got a little nasty. She's just a nasty woman. Growing up with it I had filters and didn't hear much of her nasty comments. I never realized it but I'd just zone out. My W would tell me later and if I tried really hard I could bring up a memory of my mom's comments but they certainly were not on the surface of my mind.
So I think what happened next is my wife started to shield me from my mom. I never realized it. She would intercept phone calls and visits and deal with it. I never knew it.
So I ran a business and my W shortly quite her job and came to work with me so we could be together. That was difficult for a very long time.
So here's where our life starts to sound like a movie.
So our business. We run a martial arts school in a very rare form of martial art. Things were always a little rough in the association. Not exactly your positive attitude martial art environment. More like a mafia. It had come from the chinese mafia and it was still run like it. very violent.
We were near the top of the organization but we were the black sheep in the organization. We ran a friendly school.
When my grandmaster passed away his son came in and very aggressively took over. He's a psychopath (I'm not saying that in any exaggerated sense he truly and completely fits the definition). He's the most evil person I've ever met. So needless to say we left the organization and took our business with us. Things went really bad.
We were in fear of our lives. Had constant threats and near misses. We had a lot of people trying to destroy us, our business, our marriage, our name. They went to great efforts to do so. It was nasty and it freaks me out to even write it.
During this time there were many times that my W went on an errand (usually we stuck together) but I thought for sure she would run and never come back. She didn't. I couldn't believe she didn't.
Many many terrible things happened to us. It was a constant nightmare.
So we got to a point where I thought we were fairly safe. Things were still very stressful but cooling down. (about two years into our hell)
She dropped the bomb! ILYBINILWY
It came in stages. It also coincides with the timing of our 5 year deal. Sex life slowly decreased to once a month and then every other month. One day ( a couple months before our planeed negotiation) she asks me if adopting would work for me. It was a casual conversation and stupidly I say no. A month later I get "You know I'd give you a divorce so you could go have kids" I was blown away. I had never really pushed for kids and yes I sometimes thought it would be nice but I was never sure myself if I wanted them. Later she would tell me she would have to leave me because I would never be happy without them.
So months go by and she signs us up for C. We go to one session and she breaks down and says she doesn't love me anymore. I can't remember anything else of the session. I don't think there was anything else.
So by circumstance C turns into IC. When I go the C is very manipulative of me. Just plain F's with my brain. I would leave those sessions having a panic attack (my first experience of that) but not knowing what C is supposed to be like I don't know any better.
A month or so later my wife gives me the letter from our C which announces her D. The C was practicing Marriage counseling and going through a divorce, hows that.
So W starts spouting off very 70's style womens lib stuff. Reading early women's lib materials. The C is an older woman who is obviously still living the early 70's. Vey tie dye sort. And I see my wife transforming into this.
So C gets worse and worse. I know it's not helping and it's obvious that the C is wanting to practice divorce counseling. All she does is point out "happy divorce" material and people that can take care of it inexpensively for us. She's pushing the divorce. She uses euphimisms. My wife has never said that word nor used the euphimisms. The C would say them.
So I do anything I can to cut off the C's attempts at moving us toward D. I insist on IC for myself (which was hell) to avoid her getting us together in C. Finally we have a couple joint sessions and it comes down to the one where I know the C is going to make sure the issue is pushed. W and I both know it. Our R is very strained waiting for the C session.
So I divert the session with the only thing I can think of. The only thing I said I'd never tell anyone. I spew the details of some nasty childhood occurrences. Prior to this W knows about this but says I never loved her enough to tell her before we were married. She changes her opinion on that after sitting through the details.
This buys me several months but at a big emotional cost. She's even loving towards me and holds me and comforts me. Says she's amazed at my strength. But eventually that fades and we're back on the path of her thinking she wants a D but not saying it.
***** Interesting interlude:
As is the usual coarse of events as I was writing the above W woke up and we went out to the porch for coffee. We spend each morning spending time together over coffee. Coffee has been strangely symbolic I think. C told her she had to give up coffee and when she did she had really nasty withdrawal symptoms. Curled up in a fetal position for days and cried. However she never really drank that much, maybe a cup, and she's quite several times without symptoms. Although she related those symptoms to giving up coffee I really doubt they were related. I think they were psychosomatic.
So the other interesting thing is that coffee is what brought us back together. After being separated for months and although working together not speaking to each other, W showed up with coffee one morning and we sat for a few hours and talked over coffee. That has become a ritual.
Occasionally she has stated that she is going to quite drinking coffee again. This has in the past caused me a little anxiety because of the association with the C. She'll quite and I'll push it on her. But this last time I didn't. Last week she announced her quitting coffee and so I quite bringing it to her in the morning. I get it for myself but not her. As expected in a few days she asks me for a "half cup" and she's back to drinking coffee. I really think this parrallels what's going on in her head about our marriage. Some false belief she holds tells her coffee is bad for her so she quites coffee. But then she knows she really loves coffee and when she tries to leave it she knows that it's actually good for her and quickly comes back to it. That might sound strange but I really think it's true. Her actions in the marriage are the same.
So we're having our coffee this morning and she brings up a magazine article she found about a cool website. Didn't seem like a big deal but she said she kept the magazine. Then a few minutes later she said the magazine also just *happened* to have another article about women in management and how their womanly traits can be very self defeating. AHA this gently opens up a conversation. It's a touchy subject so I tread lightly.
What I see here and have seen for a very long time is that my W is holding some beliefs that are in conflict with her true beliefs. I think that at her core there are very conservative, family oriented, strong work ethic, men are men women are women beliefs. But something she is holding onto (70's feminism) is telling her otherwise. I think she is in conflict with herself.
So I mention a book "women power" but don't mention the author. She's intrigued but I know she'll be in conflict with the author. So when asked I hesitantly say "Dr. Laura" and yep it touches a nerve. The thing is that my wife *IS* Dr Laura at heart. Her ideals are identical. But she has a great deal of conflict with her. She'll flare up and turn off her show. She's obviously angry at the mention of her name.
So I drop that conversation.
We talk a little about a couple we had over last night. I think the conversation is quite enlightening to her as far as the "two sides of a story" thing goes. The woman is a very good mother but plagued by guilt of not being one. But the guilt causes her to terribly spoil her children. Her fear is creating what she fears. My wife had been blaming her friends trouble on cultural expectations of women. The true cause was very enlightening I think. We talk about child rearing and our beliefs about it.
So I bring up a book I'm into and which is about brain function differences between men and women. We talk about this and it goes well. The idea in her head has always had something to do with revolting over men's supposed superiority. There's always been this "I'm proving women are better" sort of thing going on. So we talk about it and I bring up the ways brains are different between genders. Not better or worse but different. We talk a bit about women who deny their womanly characteristics to be strong in the corporate world. It's a good conversation and I think I made my point that women have so much power and strength but they give it all up when they try to be men.
She brings up Hillary as a strong woman and we discuss how she is not. She is a woman who is trying to be a man and that is not strength.
I think this conversation might have been a milestone. Not sure but I think we'll see.
**************
So we separated. We had to move and we did. Here's what's interesting. During the move process she did the packing. She secretly packed our things separately. She then moved all of my stuff into the new place and very carefully set it up nicely. Made it very comfortable for me and then wrote me a note that she was leaving. She moved out.
But throughout this she only left at night when it was time for bed. We had dinner together every night. she did my laundry and cleaned the house. I did the cooking as usual. Nothing had changed except she went to another house at night.
Strangely this is exactly what she described in counseling whern the C asked her how she visualized being divorced. W said "well we'd still work together and do things together and have our meals together but go home to separate houses and spouses after that"
Many times she even looked for an appropriate wife for me. Found women that would be a good wife for me and began to act as if we were moving towards that plan. She would talk about my future with so and so and had obviously thought it out.
Eventually she gradually moved back in. More and more of her things would appear. I was thrilled just a few weeks ago to finally see her underwear sharing the same drawer as mine.
Finally the trust came back. She started trusting my opinion and letting me lead as a man again (or I just did and she finally decided she liked it)
There was never an A. However early on she thought that she was really in love with an old flame she had run into. Nothing became of it and she finally admitted to me that she had been mistaken. However there were some really emotional C session where the C talked about how my W was really in love with him.
Now everything is *us* again. I really realized this the other day at the DMV. I have been planning on buying her a car for awhile and finally did. For months she was saying it would be *hers*. She drive it exclusively etc etc. So were at the DMV and I had gone off while she was waiting in line. I come back just as she's getting to the front of the line and she's frantic. She wants me on the title. Now recently she's made it very clear that everything is *ours*. This point comes up often from her. Before everything was mine mine mine. I I I Me Me Me. Now I haven't heard those words in a long time. Everything is very deliberately from her mouth Us Ours We.
Are things stagnating? Well after writing all of that I can answer my own question. Certainly not. Although I constantly think they are. When I measure it on whether or not we've had sex or not the answer is things are stagnant. When I look more closely we've moved forward by miles and miles.
A few quick points.
We love being with each other. We spend most of our time together.
We have each changed immensely in the last three years. Neither of us are the same person we were a few years ago. It's been like coming out of insanity.
When she left she said she's stick around until we were out of our financial mess and then she would leave. That day is only a few days away. There are certainly no signs of her leaving. It's quite the opposite.
If I try to go GAL she generally wants to go with me. She doesn't let me far out of her sight.
I've noticed recently that she pulls away more in situations where you would think we would be more intimate. I.E. last night we had a nice evening with friends. When things were good this would have led to a great evening in the bedroom afterwards. But instead she pulls away quicker when things are good. Last night was a very quick kiss goodnight. When it's better it's worse. This seems to be the dilemma. It makes sense as to why though.
It will be three years since we've ML in about a month or so. She sleeps on the couch.
I am very frustrated. We once had an incredible sex life.
Hows that for a little insight into my sitch.
There's plenty more but my fingers are tired and I'm off to spend the day with my wife. Just wish it was in the bedroom
