Happy Together at Long Last!!!

[tyler]

Oh Dear. Now I'm on a new part of the Piecing Rollercoaster - the one where I give up trying.
I tell H straight that i'd like more affection and i still get ignored.

So I've given up. I've told him I've given up. He asked me to tell him things straight, I did and it still has no effect.

So I've given up. If H wants this M to work then i have asked for what I want. There are a lot of things I can let go but show stoppers for me are:

1. I want hugs and kisses
2. I want to be told ILY
3. I want to ML

I am not getting a lot of these. It's up to H now. I've given up trying. If he just can't do this I will walk. I cannot live like brother and sister for the rest of my life.

I'm fed up pandering to HIS ML, to HIS depression, to HIS needs. I'm not bitter, I'm just detaching. He can take care of himself right now. I've asked for what I want, if he isn't going to give me this then I'm off. He has roughly until the end of September to make at least a couple of baby steps. After that then I'm afraid it will be too late for him. Part of me wants to go now but I've been though the bomb and I know enough now to give people a bit of time.

You know, I think this is the biggest danger area when piecing. We are pouring our heart and soul into this. While our W/H seems to just sit back and take it all in. I have been honestly struggling with my feelings and thoughts regarding how much do I have to give without any expectation of a return?

I wish I had some words of encouragement, some insight. I don't. I think the key lies in what you posted regarding detaching. I know from my experience, when I my mindset is, 'I don't care what she is doing, I'm doing this for me' everything is so much easier. My PMA is unstoppable, I enjoy my day and I can "thought stop" anything that tries to creep in.

However, when I begin to think about us, what she is giving or not giving, my needs that aren't being met.., that's when I just want to run, not walk, to my attorney and tell him to fire off the paperwork sooner rather than later. I want to get out of this and find someone that will actually be in to me, dig having me around and enjoy doing things with me.

For me, I think about my kids. Realize that before I met W, I was happy, did outdoorsy stuff almost non-stop, spent my weekend nights dancing, checking out live music and having a blast.

What would be different now compared to then? My weekend days would be spent having a blast with my kids. Which, in retrospect, is how I spent my life before W. The weekend days I would take nieces, nephews and little cousins rollerskating, skateboarding, bike riding or any of a hundred other things you can do.

Not once during that time did I grieve the 'lack' presented by her inattention. Shoot, I didn't even know her! LOL. I try to take that approach now. I do all those things. Yes, I abso-frikkin-lutely would love for her to come along. That would be my perfect world preference. Yet only I can control the amount of pain her nonparticapation can inflict on me. I would prefer that she touch me, hang out with me, go do things with me, it doesn't happen even though that is my preference. It can only hurt me when I allow myself to substitute the word NEED for PREFERENCE.

She can't hurt me any more. I prefer her, but I don't need her. Like you Jen, I told her what I want, she knows. I won't repeat it. I haven't heard the words, I love you, from her mouth in all of 2007. It only hurts when I think I need that. I don't. I'd prefer to hear it from her, yet I do hear it from my kids, other family and friends.

I know you know my point by now. You've been doing this longer than I. As a matter of fact, I've printed out numerous posts by you to read while commuting.

Detach, detach, detach. It only hurts you when you need it. When its a preference, like a chocolate bar or milkshake, if I can't have it right now, it won't kill me, I can live without it and it will just make it that much better when I do finally get to have it.

[Jen_Jam]

Tyler THANK YOU!!!! This is exactly what I needed to be reminded...detach, take care of me, remember it's a priviledge to be married, not a right, and that my H only hurts me as far as I let him.

I suppose when I said "I've given up" I mean I'm giving up trying to cajoule him, make changes in me, ask him, in any way try to influence him at all. I have no control over him, it's up to him to take these steps. I'm not upset, I'm not crying or feeling depressed, I'm just waiting.

I've looked at my M with detached, objective eyes and well, I like ME a lot, but I'm not sure about my M. I don't want H to have to be someone he's not and I don't want me to have to be someone I'm not. Maybe this whole bomb disguised the problems that ALREADY were there - lack of intimacy, lack of ILY's. I had demanded these before, been sarcastic etc (pre-bomb, before I knew better). H got depressed because he couldn't "make me happy".

it's weird.... it's important to him that I'm happy, but he seems unwilling to do what I ask. On Saturday I got flowers and last week I got bubble bath ... but gifts, while they are very nice, aren't really what I was asking for (we've both done the 5Ll quiz and gifts are very low down for both of us, although H has probably forgotten that). h's next step will be to go into a depression because he can't "make me happy" at which case it's my role to step in and comfort him. Well STUFF THAT .. that's an old cycle which does neither of us any good. (I have told him that he cannot "make" me happy and H himself has even stated he believes happiness starts with oneself. I could be guessing about him going into a depression here, making assumptions, so I will bear that in mind).

It just seems that H could lose me and doesn't seem to care... oh well, whatever, nevermind. His loss.

[sofaraway]

Sweet sweet Jen, Tyler pretty well covered anything that I would add to your situation....

Just know that you are certainly loved by many on these boards and we are all so proud of all you have done even to get where you are today. You are a blessed person Jen....

Get yourself back into line now and finish what you have started.....


Ian

[inpain]

Hi Jen

Haven't been on the boards for a while now and decided to read yours to see how you are doing. I seem to be feeling like you in that I can really feel myself getting angry inside because after all my hard work to stop the D I feel I'm "owed" something - I seem to keep needing to talk about how much H hurt me when he left. I also feel exhausted from walking on eggshells and not being able to say what I feel or think and am also utterly sick and tired of worrying that he is going to leave me again. Maybe like you say it is an inevitable part of getting back together. It feels to me that things will never ever be the same in my heart again because I know he is capable of causing me so much pain.

Anyway....enough about me agreeing with you - what I wanted to say was something about your ML troubles. It seems a bit wrong offering advice as you have been my "sage" throughout DB and you are a DB hero but when reading your words about the ML issue you don't say what you do. (apologies if you have said any of this previously btw) What I mean is you are saying you want H to hug and kiss and ML to you. I know where you're coming from because that is my LL and I prefer to have H approach me. What I mean though is do you try to ML to him or kiss him? If you do does he brush you off with an excuse or does he respond? All I'm thinking is if you don't tend to approach H how about trying that for a while. It is very hard for someone not to respond and start wanting it more (unless there is a medical problem) when their partner is always showing them how desired they are. Maybe when he goes to just peck try to turn it into a really great proper kiss. When you're in bed cuddle up and try to do something you know gets him going and tell him how much you fancy him. I just know that my H tends to get a bit like yours and since I've been doing things like that and showing him how I really feel about him there seems to be no stopping him now!

Hope haven't offended you and hope this may be an option to try out rather than waiting to see if H does something. Just get on in there and get what you want!!! IP

[Jen_Jam]

OK, I have promised an update and been meaning too... a lot has happened in the past week, all of it good (I think).

So I was in the "I've given up" mode. What I meant by that was I have given up trying to work out where H's head is at and I've given up letting his moods affect me. I call that part of detachment and it feels good.

I feel now I am truly happy with myself. I like the way I deal with things, I am very self aware, I am different to the person I was 2 years ago, not completely, I feel I've become the person I've always aspired to be (well - almost, but hey change is a journey, not a destination). Right now there are no major aspects of me that are destructive - I can now manage my anger and jealousy well. Yes, I still feel them and that's fine, but now I know a LOT more in how to deal with these in a way that doesn't p!ss off others.

OK - so onto H. Somehow on Monday night we ended up having a talk - where I again stated my feelings clearly. On Monday night I was tired and a little grumpy (in fact, on Tues night I came down with a cold, I often get grumpy just before I get ill). So H wasn't hugging me. As I went to bed I gave him a hug and he looked relieved, turns out he wasn't hugging me cos "I wasn't sure if you wanted me to or not".

At this point let me scream - SDFound girl will understand how I feel here - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

That's better I then stated calmly that I had already asked him for more cuddles, etc and that was what I wanted. I pointed out that these were very important to me and I asked my H if he wanted to help make our M a happy one. He said yes. Well, his exact words were "I am not going to let all of this go, I am not a person to say I'm bored now and walk of". So I'm happy with that. I then pointed out that the cuddles etc were important and that if nothing changed then there was a risk of me becoming a WAW.

I said a few things, can't remember the exact words, in fact I didn't say that much, so different to my old R talks, this talk was very to the point. My points were:

1. I want cuddles, ML and ILY's. These are vital to me
2. I am happy with myself and feel there is little "work" I can or want to do on myself right now
3. H has stated before his LD is all his problem, thus I said it was up to him to work on it. I was not going to dictate to him what to do or how to do it, he would need to figure it out, but if he wanted help from me I would be happy to provide that.
4. If he didn't do this he risks me becoming a WAW. I said this was not a threat, but I had seen it happen a lot of times.
5. H then said "let's have a talk tomorrow" and I replied that I'd done all the talking I wanted to, I had nothing more to say but would listen to him if and when he wanted to.

And that's it. Some might say I was demanding and threatening, I tried hard to present this (and even said it) not as a threat but as a warning. I told him so many LBS's get bombed in what they feel is "out of the blue" and that they wish their WAS could have sat down with them and communicated very clearly what was wrong. I was trying to do just that. i also stated right now I have no intention of becoming a WAS, that it's not what I want.

Then I dropped it - no mention of it since, the ball is in H's court, my task is to encourage the positive steps he makes.

And - he's made positive steps!!! I have been getting cuddles and I got TWO!!!!!!!!! ILY's last night - that makes a total of four this year. We were sitting outside drinking and talking and he had dug out all the music we played at our wedding (we have it on CD's). Then as a couple of tracks were playing he said "this takes me back to that day, it was one of the happiest days of my life and listening to these songs again makes me realise how important you are to me". Then I got an ILY. Also - when we went to bed I think he was trying to initiate but ... I wasn't in the mood, I've just got over this cold, had had a bad day at work, just needed to sleep. I didnt say anything but I will encourage his next attempt (no point me saying I want more ML then turning him down all the time!!!). H had also tidied up the house and done the shopping, which makes my day today a little easier (he has Fridays off work, I have Saturdays off, we both get Sundays off).

So - all in all I have asked for what I want, stated it clearly a few times, I think it's FINALLY sunk in - so now, what do I do? I'm going to sit back, enjoy this, not be bitter about what didn't go on in the past but look to the present and the future, encourage it, I feel that the final piece is going into place. it's funny - i've stopped trying to guess what H is thinking, it feels good. I criticise him for trying to guess what i'm thinking - ha ha, seems we BOTH fell into that trap

Anyhoo- waffled enough. I hope all of you are doing well, and would like to finish with a quote I found inspiring for me at this time:

"Goals are a mean to an end, not the ultimate purpose of our lives. They are a tool to concentrate our focus and move us in a direction.The only reason we persue goals is to cause ourselves to expand and grow. Achieving goals by themselves will not make us happy in the long term; it's who you become as you overcome the obstacles neccessary to achieve your goals that can give you the deepest and most long lasting sense of achievement."
(Anthony Robbins)

[Jen_Jam]

Hey Ip - thanks for the post - we cross posted!!! You make a LOT of very good points about ML ... will have to have a think about these questions, please bear with me, I'm glad you're with me on this cos I could use your advice on the ML issue especially (you and I are now full members of the DB Councel and thus can advise each other ebing full DB masters now ).

I;ll have a think today and post a reply today/tomorrow

PS am hoping ML might not be a problem this weekend - I am having an Anne Summers party tonight, got the chance to buy a few naughty treats!!!

[Jeff223]

[Rob1231]

So - all in all I have asked for what I want, stated it clearly a few times, I think it's FINALLY sunk in - so now, what do I do? I'm going to sit back, enjoy this, not be bitter about what didn't go on in the past but look to the present and the future, encourage it, I feel that the final piece is going into place. it's funny - i've stopped trying to guess what H is thinking, it feels good. I criticise him for trying to guess what i'm thinking - ha ha, seems we BOTH fell into that trap

Hey Jen, That's great - just want to remind you that he may backslide a bit over time. Hey - it happens to the best of us, right? If/when that happens, don't panic - just help him get back on track. After all, there are no "final" steps to this - it is a never-ending journey.

And good luck with the party and afterwards!

[swashy]

Awesome Jen!!! A few weeks ago we talked on her about the difference between R talks and communicating your needs. That is what you did and it seems to have paid off nicely.

[SDFoundGirl]

Oh Jen...no advice dear, just a ITOTALLYUNDERSTANDYOURFRUSTRATIONHANGINTHEREDRINKLOTSOFWINE/BEER/SHOOTERSUNTILHECATCHESUPWITHYOU.

I think this is our opportunity to see the sitch through our H's eyes when they were the WAS. I keeps us from demonizing them and gives us a sorely needed perspective. We're also more aware of how we're feeling and why because we have to be...and this little bomb for our H's also helps them do a little soul searching, see the sitch through our eyes.

I think this process is repeated throughout a marriage to a lesser degree. We want the fairy tale, but the fairy tale doesn't exist. Marriage is hard, hard work. Worth it? That still remains to be seen.

Hang in there sweetie. Sorry I've been an ostrich lately...just having a rough time as I navigate the end of the school year and my feelings about my H.

Wanna spend a couple weeks in Guatemala? I'm looking for a traveling partner....

SD