My Marriage feels helpless III

[lovelyolive]

Camping is way more fun than BK and smokey bowling alleys!

[Dr LOve]

hey ERC

My son and I leave sunday but we will be gone a week. The W will be all alone exept for her cell phone. There is WIFI where We are going.

Husband

[faithisbelieving]

Em...way to go on the book. OK..some tough love. I think the hardest part of where you....I..am now ..is balancing between being reality based and 'loving her out the front door.' At times, I 've had to say some tough things to my W:
-that my friendship is reserved for my W..that if she splits, I would respect her as the mother of my children but the deep friendship would go
-I bought two new car seats when I got a new car recently (we would share them usually)
-I went to a wedding without her when she told me she would be faking if she went..and she cried and regretted it the next day
-I told her that we differ on a definition of what is family....to me.it's nuclear with two loving parents under one roof. She thinks it will be hunkdory if she splits, we're still family...even her L said that if she seps, "nothing changes". Bah humbug.

This may not be for you. I'm just saying that part of all this ...for you..is finding the balance between DB'ing...being a leader...and letting her know that things will NOT be the same later. It's tough....I still make some mistakes..but I still throw curveballs at her (I gave her an unexpected kiss the other day).

As for the doc thing...let it go. I'm a surgeon...I get called out in the middle of the night...have to stress out seeing a Tball game and seeing a patient....the doctor shadow thing, etc. And forget the money thing. We're getting slammed with malpractice premiums.

But ya wanna know something Em? What is life? What is this agreement that we all entered into? It's part of the game. You put your helmet on, dug in your cleats and you're still playing. They choose to run.

Are they horrible people?
No.
Are they 'sick'?
I don't think so..perhaps SOME are literally clinically depressed and making poor decisions.
Did WE make a poor choice? Perhaps.

4kids on my thread talks about not doing yourself in with guilt and resentment. If.....IF...we chose wrongly, or, missed signs, how much do you blame yourself for it? How much do you learn from it and say...hell, I've learned and it's part of my history?

Stop fighting to fill her LL's. If there is an opportunity, sure...fill the tank. No arguments. The more you let go...the easier it is. It still hurts, but, in a different way.

Kids, kids, kids, kids.

Strength and honor.
FIB

[whatisis]

Are they horrible people?
No.
Are they 'sick'?
I don't think so..perhaps SOME are literally clinically depressed and making poor decisions.
Did WE make a poor choice? Perhaps

You make an excellent point, Faithisbeliving. We LBS's can very easily get caught up in the "he/she is crazy" mode of thinking. Yes, that is often our anger speaking but it is also a way of putting all the blame on our S's for whatever happened. Human relationships are complex and high maintainance and in the course of day to day life often get shortchanged by both parties. Our society promotes the idea of romantic love as the epitomy of true love, when that dies down we often feel lost, don't know what to do, I mean, isn't love supposed to be easy and timeless, the intensity should never die down. We look for what we feel we've lost. Our S's looked for that intensity outside the M and found it. Is that crazy? No, but it is destructive, hurtful and sad. I know myself, I let my M go by being the normal everyday Hubby who took it all for granted. Sure, I did lots of wonderful things but I also neglected some things as well. When I woke up, it was too late because she'd lost interest. So, our S's have made poor choices but we also have to take responsibility for our part in those choices. I don't excuse the WAS's conscious choice which inflicts horrible pain on those they leave behind but I can understand somewhat how it comes to happen too. Do we whip ourselves for our part in it all? No, we try to be better people and show our S's we are worthy of them returning and trying to work out a real, solid, loving and respectful R. That's all we can really do and if we do that, we've done our best.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi Guys,

First, ERC, try really hard to back off. Giving your w books about divorce/damage is another way of telling her she is wrong. Stop the convincing. I think I read the average A runs actively about 6 months, whatever an "average" affair is. The ONLY way for her to find her way back, IF she can, is for her to just get going on the journey. In fact, the more you "blame" her, (and giving her books and yelling and pointing out things are simply more forms of blame) the harder you'll make it for her to come back. You have to remember if you do want this marriage, then, you have to "KEEP THE ROAD HOME PAVED AND SMOOTH" and that means you cannot "guilt" her anymore!" etc. all that does is shut down her own inner voice, her conscience. At some level she feels terrible as a mom, and she knows she has disappointed you deeply. Of course she's revising the marriage, if she didn't do that she'd have to admit she's been a selfish nutty b---....

Also, fwiw, I have noticed some people want the WAS back IN PART b/c they don't like losing and let's face it, it hurts like hell. But then, when the WAS wants back in and the LBS really lets all the acts of the WAS sink in, the LBSer decides he doesn't want the WAS back. So I guess you need to really assess whether you DO want your WAS back knowing what you now know about them. If you really see this episode as an aberration in your W, then don't analyze so much b/c if this is OUT of character, why bother trying to figure it all out? Just ignore everything she says, and half of what she does.

In sum, one thing you may want to ask yourself in those lonely moments of the dark nights, is whether you really want THIS woman, as she is now, back into your life as your wife...and whatever you'll need from her to prove herself to you--will it be something she can do? Will you need so much reassurance from her that your M will be set up for failure? Will your anger, so long repressed, pop up so often and so unexpectedly, that you will end up sabataging your chance for reconciliation
to avoid being hurt again, or to punish her? These are tough questions and believe me, I know from experience.

Here's food for thought. I love my h, but since his MLC I can now see that he has a very selfish streak in him. And all the usual questions about whether I was blind, in denial, or even caused his behavior, come up. And we all do have roles in our situations, today. I find It's weird to see my h in this light, but I am trying on some new attitudes. He wants us to be M and together. Maybe b/c of his wanting back in, I have the "luxury" of reflection. Here are some thoughts and possible insights.

So, maybe my h is a selfish man who pursues his "tasks/missions" with blinders on, but I also know he loves me and the kids, even if we aren't where we should be in his life. This time apart seems to have highlighted our importance to him, or so I hope/ believe. SO, let's assume he has done some big selfish things and lied to get them. What IF I don't think he'll do them again, OR if I see other qualities in him, is it possible for me to still accept him and love him and for us to work things out? I mean, I see why repeated infidelity or gambling the house away, would ruin a M for sure. But does that mean every fault demands a divorce? MUST we split up when we find a character flaw in our spouses that goes beyond the little, and not so little things? Is one big flaw/fault enough to throw in the towel? For some of us, it is. We ALL agree on only a few things; ie don't stick around if you get batted around. And most of us cannot handle repeated betrayal. But for most of us, the rest is a gray area and even that shifts...and we have to ask whether we HAVE TO leave for each real fault in our spouse, or learn to forgive.

I hope it's the latter. I'm giving my M another shot and that is despite lots of misgivings, and lots of going back and forth. And forgiveness is a great concept but it takes much longer than i expected, and I actually want to forgive.

So you know, as an LBSer, be prepared to have many mixed feelings if your WAS wants back in. it isn't all joy on your end and it isn't all remorse on their end. In fact, the WAS may not seem totally interested in making it ALL up to you, though they do at first. But when they first return, or signal their desire to do so, They seem to do one of two approaches: either they go over the top with their regret, so much so that it's almost a bit indulgent, and they beat themselves up until the LBSer (!!?) comforts them to make THEM feel better....

OR, they say they're sorry and they mean it, but after a relatively short time, they want to move forward all fresh. Sort of as if they were simply mistaken, or did a bad thing but more or less they expect forgiveness. Don't assume it's easy for them to ask for it, or to admit they've handled very important things in their life, really badly. And to some extent, at least for now, I think we have to accept that. I do know that the the returning WAS has to know we won't hold this over their heads forever. There has to be an end in sight for them to finally feel that they can start over with US, or they'll want to start over with someone else, if you kwim... Just food for thought.

FIB, all I can say is -- Your w is not well. I'm not qualified to diagnose her and you're probably too close to the situation and besides, what IF the "cure" for her is to be alone with herself, for some time? Would you want that "treatment"? But I just think she is so off and ill, not all the regular crazy "rules" of MLCing apply to her. You and your M are on your own path and that isn't necessarily bad news. Maybe you don't have to KNOW what's going to happen, for today. I know how hard all this ambiguity is, God I know. But perhaps there are things we are not meant to understand and THAT, is what faith really is, hence the phrase "the mystery of faith". The great comedienne, Gilda Radner, wrote in her memoir that when facing an unknown prognosis for her cancer, we must recall that none of us know what's going to happen the next day, so we all face some ambiguity in life. I think the last words of her book said, we have to "learn to embrace the ambiguity" and that seems like a good idea to me. Be here now. Especially for our children, we have to be fully present, today. Their childhoods seem shorter than mine did, and I know their years with me went by in a blink. So I'm working on dong this: embrace the ambiguity b/c it exists regardless, and live today as well as I can.

((hugs to you guys, hang in there )))
j-