last e-mail, after call from W. W called to say, "I think you should go, this is the plan we made and I think you should go". I didn't answer, it went to VM. Not because I ignored it, because I was out of the office for a minute.
Let me know what you think. I tried to be honest, giving and understanding of where she is now, despite how much it sucks to be me.
W, you said I accused you of switching something off. I'm sorry it was heard or taken that way. I'll keep this brief.
Ask anyone I have talked to about this, your mom and dad, my mom or my brother have all asked me about things.
I have consistently said the thing that hurts the most is this; the one person who loved me no matter what, without judgement, in good times and in bad, with money and without, with kids and without, through everything. The one person that loved me without asking me to jump through hoops and earn their approval, I hurt. I trashed that. It wasn't ''switched off" by any means. I carry that everyday and I should. I would do anything, give anything, be anything to bring that love back, to awaken it.
The only thing I can do now is accept where you are and be the best man I can be for my kids and for you.
-me
W had said in a call earlier that I have said she just switched it off. I'm not sure how she heard that. I told her that it's hard for me to keep going to social things as a couple, as we are expected to, yet not act like a couple. I have years of going to these things with her and hanging with her like we are actually together. I said, "how can I just switch that off?, I'm trying but it's not easy to unprogram 18 years of that". W took it as me accusing her of just switching it off one day. I know better than that.
What a crappy day. I gotta get out and do something. It's nice out and I'm stuck inside typing reports?!
Since, I've been there so I can share the experience. Back in January of '06 I was a mess. I really saw my M as over. However at one point, after a couple 2x4s from some friends here, I pulled up the bootstraps and I told myself that for now, that the goal is not winning my W back. I had a strategy. So here was my strategy: I'm going to become the best man I can be.
Note, my strategy was NOT saving the M or walking away from it - but instead I said to myself that in ORDER to save my M or to survive a D, I NEEDED to be the best man I could. In order to do that, it meant that I stopped looking at my shortcomings, and focus on the opportunities in front of me toward getting to that goal. For me it was simple and obvious - GAL - lose the weight, change the wardrobe, be closer to my kids. Some however, were not - like don't be hurt that the wife is cheating on you, telling you it is over...etc.
But it came to me one day, that I had no control over those things (the cheating and leaving), so instead, I focused on being me and using and enjoying the "opportunities" as they arose. Examples.... As much as we too were stretched financially, if my W asked me to come out, I would go out and use it as an opportunity to show her the new man I was becomeing. The opportunity - if I go out and meet her and her friends (or family) and I'm dressed to the nines and I'm outgoing and attractive - the friends "empathy" for my W's decision takes a chink in its armor. I was told by W that SEVERAL of her friends - all "supportive" of her decision would ask "tell me again why your d-ing this guy". Now, after W would again tell them why, it did create an opening - and keep the ambiguity GOING until your changes are proved permanent - that takes time and patience. So, dress yourself up, put on the biggest smile and get out there with W and friends (or W alone, whatever). Looking back, I would not have always waited until she asked me, but instead I would have framed it as "I'm going to go see X band on Friday, why don't you join me." I've FINALLY started doing this in my "new" M now with great result.
So, back to goals and strategy. What is yours? If it is to win your W back, its a worthy goal - but you are gating yourself. What I am saying is while a great goal, how do you keep the focus on "self preservation" and improvement. If you focus there, understanding that you might, but there is a VERY good chance that you WON'T win your W back, then you become much more resiliant I think. That is where I got my mind. I put a future focus and path in front of me - and just walked that path. Sometimes that meant I needed to slow down and look back and see if the W was following - and if not, slow down. That meant I needed to do all that I could do to earn her trust (LISTENING skills here!) and the ability to keep my mouth shut - not explain my feelings (that usually hurt her more and pushed her away). Instead, I vented here. But I was always looking for "opportunities".
So, how would you define your life mission, tyler? Regardless of whether you are married or not....then let that be your guide.
Now, regarding the letter - I probably wouldn't have sent it - at least in that form - but no worries - you have put it out there and that is OKAY. I think now, it is best to try and listen to what she is saying, keep empathizing her hurt and don't make it about you. Simple respond that you will do all you can do to work to a fair and equitible settlement should the topic arise. That's not to say that elements of the letter need to be hashed out - like how are you going to pay for the stuff you need to pay for this coming month - that you need to do - but I would caution to avoid elements that explain why you're in the predicament.
But like I said before, now even more so, time to look for opportunites to be the best man you can be.
Okay, I found another cool book through a friend that is helping me improve even more in my R with my W - It's called Hold on to Your N.U.T.s. I'll send you an email tomorrow about, but I think the wisdom in there is priceless. Its an easy read too.
Anyway, I've said a couple of times before, ambiguity on your W's part is perfect - and ripe with opportunity. When she says "trying" something to win her back won't work try agreeing it might look like that, but I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it for me (tyler). And if she gives you opportunities to be the man you want to be, let her, and take her up on it. And be PATIENT - trust with our S's is slowly destroyed. Regaining it, will take equal, or more time. Trust me, I know....
Hope that helps.
Sven
Double DOH! Why is it that every time I start to come apart, then do something stupid, I post back here only to realize we cross-posted?
I'm going to print this out so I can read and remember. I need to think about this. I haven't re-assessed my goals and objectives. I have been listing, waning from side to side, pretty much capsizing. I feel like I have capsized and I'm swimming around under the hull looking for air pockets.
I do need to visit my goals. I will be there tonight. I will have fun. It is a great band.
I'm in a weird spot mentally. I'm going to look at an apartment in a few moments. Thinking how much it sucks. I need to start thinking about how much it will allow me to focus on me and getting my act together.
Only time for a quick post - I just got back from Ireland last night.
Anyway, Patience, Patience, Patience.
That said, not that moving out is always the best thing - I'll tell you I would NOT have gotten to where I got without it. I NEEDED to be away from the mood swings, etc. and allowed to focus solely on ME and by boys. This gave me that opportunity. One thought might be that you grab some newspapers or an apartment guide and leave it in your car (but somewhere the kids won't find it) and let the W see it. Might give her that sense of reality....
But more importantly, be patient....
Try and have a great holiday weekend.
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Only time for a quick post - I just got back from Ireland last night.
Anyway, Patience, Patience, Patience.
That said, not that moving out is always the best thing - I'll tell you I would NOT have gotten to where I got without it. I NEEDED to be away from the mood swings, etc. and allowed to focus solely on ME and by boys. This gave me that opportunity. One thought might be that you grab some newspapers or an apartment guide and leave it in your car (but somewhere the kids won't find it) and let the W see it. Might give her that sense of reality....
But more importantly, be patient....
Try and have a great holiday weekend.
Sven
Thanks Sven!
Yesterday while driving to a holiday get-together, a friend called. I answered not expecting anything but a hey whassup? type call. He let me know that he is D'ing his W within 30 days. She has been a WAW for about 3 years. He's had enough. Classic WAS response when the moving truck showed up, "what is this all about? What do you mean you're moving? I don't have a job, what will I do?" He told me she was following him around the house with these questions as he was loading stuff. The last thing he did as she was asking him what she is going to do since she has spent the last 3 years telling him how much she can't stand him and just wants a D, but has yet to get back into the workforce, was sign some paper the laborer needed signed from the realty company verifying that they had installed a HUGE for sale sign and he was happy with the placement.
He said it was a classic Gone With the Wind moment. It finally hit her that everything she had been asking for was happening, and not on her terms. She said one more time, "what am I going to do?" He said, "I don't give a damn, you can only tell someone to f-off in word and deed for so long before they respond".
My W heard the whole conversation due to it being a cell phone in a small car. My friend is also a loud talker. He basically started firing from the git-go so I had no way to interrupt him and tell him 'now isn't a good time'. LOL.
W had a weird look on her face and was noticeably down for quite some time. I think it was a little to close to home for her. I found out later that she has told MIL that she doesn't know how she can do it, she can't stay and she can't go and she doesn't know if she can ever be what she is supposed to be for me. FIL related this as I was driving him to the airport today.
In the past I would have jumped all over this, yeah! I have hope! Today I just felt sad for her. I felt bad that she feels trapped, that she doesn't know what she wants and can't seem to get her head clear. That's a real shame because she is a great person. She had a blast yesterday at the get-together. Lots of old friends were there and lots of good food and wine. We were there until the wee hours, laughing and catching up. There was a time where the majority of her waking hours were just like that, fun, carefree and filled with friends. Now it seems her thoughts are consumed with how much her life sucks.
Sorry, but I just can't do the angst thing any longer. For my part, I am clear, finally after a year of trying to DB I get it. It really is about fixing us. Not the R, definitely not them, but fixing us, getting in touch with who I am, not who I am as it relates to her, but who I am period.
Over the last few weeks I have truly resolved this issue within my head. W has definitely noted this and the feedback from those around confirms the confusion/ambiguity this has caused in her. Although I'm glad to hear this as it confirms that the effort I'm putting into improving myself is evident, I really am not putting too much more emphasis on it than just that. To be honest, I feel the same way about hearing that as I do about a comment one of my daughters classmates made the other day during the field trip, she said to my D9, "whoa, your dad is buff". I just thought, cool, my hard work is paying off in that it is noticable even wearing a loose fitting shirt. Several of the moms there to help as well, asked me questions regarding diet and exercise. Pretty cool and I have to admit a bit of an ego stroke.
I don't know if that makes sense or not but that is about how it affects me to hear that W is wavering. I don't go through the mental and emotional gymnastics I would have a few months ago. Now I just think, cool my hard work is paying off in that my changes are evident, it really is becoming hardwired, I can't wait to see where I am in a few more years of even greater effort.
The significance? A few months ago I would have thought, I can't wait to see where we are after a few more months of this effort.
Here is something I posted earlier on frank_d's thread. It's something I've been thinking about ever since reading the makingherhappy e-mail this morning.
Is this something that just falls under the patience category?
One thing I was thinking about after reading that earlier is, one of our biggest fights has been her emotional entanglement with a friend. Hours a day on the phone, when she goes out it's with this friend, that kind of thing. I kept telling her that if she would just give me half of that energy, maybe we could reconcile. Obviously, I have stopped that.
Now, W will be on the phone with this friend for an hour before bed. Then she will get in bed with me and we will catch up on TIVO. She will have absolutely nothing to say. Driving places, nothing to say. Hanging out, nothing to say. Granted, she is a quiet person and she has made the point that during these phone conversations, she really doesn't do a lot of talking, just listens to her friend.
Should I leave it alone? The conversations I do hear her having with her friends are usually girlfriend type stuff anyway, I just wish she would open up to me about other stuff. You know the emotional intimacy type thing.
Just don't know how to get there from here right now, if at all.
Things have been relatively peaceful. I am seriously pursuing this idea of; 'don't disagree'. Simple enough. She's not abusive so getting walked on is not an issue, therefore I have no problem with just agreeing with whatever comes out of her mouth.
Fortunately W has backed off from all R talk so that does make it easier. Our last conversation that came close to R talk was Saturday and that didn't go far as I told her what of my actions is saying that I'm not hearing you; found another place to live, dividing assets, not making any plans for dates or spending time together, of those things, which one demonstrates to you that I'm not hearing you and preparing to move on with my life?
That was the last of that conversation. Thankfully.
Yesterday W asked me if I want to go to Michigan for the 4th of July. This is the second time this week that she has mentioned future plans with me involved. Actually there was a third. Sunday night she was talking with one of our friends and this friend, (a teacher), has 2 small children, mentioned that she needs a night out. W invited her to go with W and her sister to a jazz club either tonight or next Thursday night, or maybe both. Friend mentioned childcare issues, W said, "okay, well see what you can work out, I'll have tyler at home with my kids so I can go, just let me know". Okay.
Later that night all of us were talking around the fire and one mentioned a Motown Night at a local club. Everyone is talking about going and W looks at me and says, "do you want to go?". Of course I would want to go, it sounds like good music and a lot of fun. W says, "okay, I have to lead the next morning though so I can't be out late and if it's really smokey in there I might not be able to stay long at all". Okay.
Then yesterday she mentions the 4th of July plan.
Okay. She knows she has asked for a separation when the kids get out of school, June 5th. She knows all of the stuff I've done to make this happen, to give her what she wants. Now she wants to make plans with me?
On a related yet unrelated note, she is starting to relax more and more around me. She is actually starting to make small talk with me, and just general conversation type stuff. This has been gone for a long time. We were joking around while catching up on TIVO'd episodes of The Shield last night, trying to figure out if the 'concerned father' was really all that concerned or just trying to keep his nose in the investigation.
She fell asleep again pretty close to me and facing me.
So, how am I interpreting all of these little things?
Simply that the changes in me are affecting our R in that there is peace now. This allows her to relax around me and not see me as an adversary, someone to be pounced on every time I open my mouth. There is nothing coming from me that could be interpreted as a shot at her. I'm staying so far from any hot topics, there is just no way. It's taken all the wind out of her sails.
Things are remaining peaceful. My brother mentioned the other day how "easy" the vibe is around us now. He asked is she is just playing nice so I don't fight her about everything involved in the separation/D. Obviously, I don't know, if I did I would play the lotto immediately as I would be a first class psychic.
W continues to push the issue around the 4th of July plans. What do I want to do? On and on. It's almost an hourly question. Problem is, my kids are around when she brings it up so I really don't want to get into at those times.
I haven't been pushing the issue of separation. I am going ahead with my plans regarding an apartment, dividing our assets and the planning necessary to carry out the separation W desires.
I haven't been pushing the issue as it's impossible to broach that topic without getting into an R talk. I have no desire to hear how undesirable I am, how much she doesn't want to be with me socially, emotionally, sexually or any other -ally. That's like banging my head against the wall and saying I like it because it is sort of a pat on the head.
I think I will let her bring it up and then I will reserve my response to just a few sentences. "You know I would not want this, yet I have accepted that you do. I want you to be happy and you believe this will go a long way towards making you happy. Now, let's work out the financial issues, I have a place to move into as soon as I leave, the only thing left for us to do is talk to the kids, when do you want to do that?"
You want to know the crazy part of this thing?
We've had sex more in the last couple of weeks then in months prior. Outside of that, there is no physical contact; no hugs, kisses, nada, zip, nothing.
Not much new to report. Kind of in limbo at the moment.
The most difficult challenge for me right now is not asking about the state of the R.
Part of me wants to know, are we separating or what?
The other side of me doesn't really care. I'm going to be okay either way. If I really believe that, then why do I need to know what the state of our R is, if she is still planning her exit or anything else.
Yes, it will affect me but not in a life changing way it would have a few months ago. I really believe my response, (and the one I have mentally rehearsed/visualized), would be to look around and say, "Okay, this phase of my life is done, what's next?"
Honestly looking at whatever comes next with excitement, and a bit of a rush. The opportunity to take on new territory and the challenges that come with moving into a new place, physically, mentally and spiritually.
If I stay or if I go, I'm looking forward to the continued reconstruction of Tyler.
We were there until the wee hours, laughing and catching up. There was a time where the majority of her waking hours were just like that, fun, carefree and filled with friends. Now it seems her thoughts are consumed with how much her life sucks. 