Her other comments in the quote indicate a number of things. Here are a few.
Well there you go. If any of that is accurate then I'm wasting my time, right.
But, if it is accurate, then why'd she come back? Why's she still here? Why's she booking us vacations? Why are we having the same 50-email-strong conversations every day during work that we've always had? Why are we making long-term plans together?
Do I call BS on all of this?
During some weird moments, in the last 6 months, I've also put it to her a couple times that I'll go if she wants me to.
She told me she didn't want that. She's told me that she wouldn't be here if she wanted to be with anyone else. Does that mean anything other than how it actually reads?
She is back because she is vacillating, and she is stuck in her indecision. Ultimately, her indecision, is a decision, and usually the wrong one. In the mean time, you are left dangling, in pain that she is either unaware of, or is ambivalent about.
If you want to call BS on it, then you call BS on the core issue, and that is her lack of commitment.
Her core issue with you is likely in your lack of EMOTIONAL involvement with her.
Quote: "She told me she didn't want that. She's told me that she wouldn't be here if she wanted to be with anyone else. Does that mean anything other than how it actually reads?"
Yes. You are for now, the better choice, and by that I mean the choice that makes her feel less guilty. It's the vacillation thing again.
The whole thing does stink, and she needs to be honest with you. Honest about her real feelings, about her sexuality, and about how the importance of your perception of her is overriding her need to make a decision to either fully commit to the relationship, or leave it.
Oh, and never volunteer to leave, that is like throwing cold water on her. HUGE turn off.
You CAN tell her to make up her mind, and that you won't wait on her forever to do it. That takes away her assumption that you won't just move on yourself. It will also de-feminize you somewhat in her eyes.
Offer her a choice. Either fully engage in the relationship by working with you in addressing any and ALL issues therein, openly and honestly, or you are going to start considering your options.
Let me know how the sex goes after.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
"No one is interested in who I really am. I've been trying to tell you for years and you've never cared before..."
"I'm nothing more than Z's mom, your wife, & the household janitor."
"I gave up trying to be myself years ago and all I do is try to be what everyone else wants me to be."
Insert sigh of martyrdom at the end of each sentence. ;\)
Hmmmm...make some minor variations for gender role and that all sounds way more like my 2bx than me. Fortunately for me, my sad lack of empathetic listening skills finally drove him away.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hmmmm...make some minor variations for gender role and that all sounds way more like my 2bx than me. Fortunately for me, my sad lack of empathetic listening skills finally drove him away.
Right. New letter. And she'll get it tomorrow. No waiting around anymore...
Mrs AC
Hey you - forgive the bluntness in this email, 'k... I haven't got what it takes to have an affair (which, I think, is a damned good personality trait) and believe me, I really don't want to be the one to split our family up, but I need to write this to you because talking about it hasn't gotten us anywhere yet - and probably won't get us anywhere anytime soon.
The thing is, I really don't think that you have any idea what kind of effect this total lack of intimacy is having on me. The feelings of sheer rejection I'm experiencing on a day to day basis are absolutely immense, and while I adore the very ground you walk on, one thing I am now certain of is that I just can't go on like this for the rest of my life.
So I'm facing this problem head on. One of us - if not both of us - has to.
I'm not sure whether you're happy to rattle along in half a relationship like this, but it's certainly not a NORMAL or HEALTHY place for either of us to be in. I'm hoping with all of my heart that you'd like to fix it just as much as I do, so we both can be happy in the marriage and we both can thrive in a normal, loving, and healthy relationship, and we both can set a damned good example to S6 and D3 for when they grow up and get to do it all themselves.
The thing is, I find it extremely difficult to put how I'm feeling into words, but can you imagine lying awake in bed night after night after night (for literally hundreds and hundreds of nights on end) hoping with every last cell in your body for some (any!) physical contact with the person you love more than anyone else in the world? Can you imagine trying time after time to initiate something (anything!), only for that same person to forcefully, physically, mechanically and literally push you away each and every time? Can you imagine hearing that person angrily say "get off me" every time you try to touch them intimately in bed, and believing that they really, really mean it? Can you imagine hearing that person make a point of telling you before you even get into bed how tired they are, or that they've got a headache, on what now seems like every other night, seemingly as a warning for you not to try anything? Can you imagine putting everything you have emotionally into a relationship only for the person you love to clam up and not even attempt to meet any of your needs? Can you imagine being physically near the person you love almost 24 hours a day, but not being allowed to get close to them at all?
Can you imagine how any of that would make YOU feel? Can you imagine what that does to your self-esteem? Your confidence? Your mood?
I know you thought that I was content to carry on like this and accept the scraps of a relationship, but really I'm not. Or at least I'm not anymore. I need more from a marriage than you're giving me right now.
I need you to make up your mind and demonstrate some commitment. I need you to fully engage in our relationship by working with me in addressing any and ALL issues, openly and honestly, or I'm seriously going to start considering my options.
Thing is, you're going to have to do it sooner rather than later, too, because this time I'm not going to wait around for you.
A good start would be for you to read the book in the top drawer of my bedside cabinet. If nothing else, it does an excellent job of explaining how this whole issue is making me feel - and it might help you understand why you feel like you do, too.
As you know, I'll do absolutely anything it takes. It's your call now.
Ambient From my own POV I actually preferred the first letter but thats just my opinion. Maybe NOP will disagree but I personally felt this one was more needy sounding.
I have to say you have to really follow through with no longer wanting to go on in a marriage at your age with zero sex life.
My friend met her current partner whose wife said pretty much the same as yours. He had thought she might change but in 17 years (yes not a misprint 17 years) he had no sex life with his wife. He did leave a couple of times but the kids and home drew him back. He eventually met my friend and walked out for good.
Sadly this story doesn't have quite the happy ending for the guy as after a year she was on tamoxifen for breast cancer and SHE lost any interest. I'm working on her and telling her of how the guys here feel and she is hopefully going to listen and think of her partner. Her attitude is pretty much well I'm getting absolutely nothing from it so why should I. Pretty much like his wife's POV. When I pointed out but thats the main reason he left his wife for you she could kind of start to see HER behaviour was wrong. At least he had one good year LOL.
Seriously at your age kids or no kids I would rather walk than live like this and eventually you would be tempted to have an A yourself and can't say I'd blame you.
I realise now that my own H probably had his 1st A because our SL was pretty non existant. Unlike you my H did nothing around the house probably only made me 5 cups of tea our whole 31 years M and I was exhausted ,looking after 3 kids. My desire for him was pretty low because I really resented being treated like just the housekeeper. Had he treated me the way he did his 1st mistress I would have been way more inclined to ML. Guess he felt the mistress really thought he was wonderful and I KNEW all his faults as well as his good points.
Try to resolve this now or you will be unhappy for years. Lots of luck
You covered some really good points in the letter,.
As shmagic suggested, however, the letter is too needy, in fact, you should replace most of the "I need" statements with "I want".
Also, rather than simply stating your position, you are making demands. You will want to change that.
I think you need to try again with some changes.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Take their advice on changing some things in the letter, but send it to her. If she doesn't get a totally scared feeling in her heart and the pit of her stomach, nothing's going to change and you might as well move on.
I needed this type of wake up call from my H and it worked! Hopefully she will realize that she wants to work on things as well and get her rear in gear. Hopefully she will finally understand the seriousness of the sitch. I think that's the bottom line and she needs to know she needs to do something.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
We were mucking around in the kitchen early Saturday morning and she snuck up behind me and yanked my shorts down, all playful, like. I yelled and chased her a little and started playfully poking and grabbing her, too.
(Let me reiterate something here first... apart from the sex, the rest of our marriage/relationship is really good. Better than it's been in a long time, and almost as much fun as it was in the early days, 'k? There's LOTS of physical contact - snuggling up on the sofa, holding hands when we're out, kisses, hugs, etc - initiated by both of us. Even in bed. Only she stops dead just before it turns sexual. I'm not allowed to touch her intimately at all, and she very rarely touches me in that way. Damn, that's frustrating, but anyhoo...)
So, back to the kitchen. I'm playfully grabbing her and she (naturally) begins telling me not to... so I take the initiative and ask her why she doesn't like me touching her. Not just like this in the kitchen, but in bed, etc. She starts feeding me BS as usual, about being tired, about the kids, yada, yada. But for the first time ever, instead of being sympathetic to her, I carry on calling BS on her - until she knows that I really want the truth. She breaks and begins to tell me that it's because she...
...hates her body.
We couldn't talk much, because we had people coming round for the day later, but it seemed like a really difficult thing for her to say to me. And a HUGE thing for her to say, too. Can I just ask the girls a question here - is that something *you'd* find difficult to say to your Hs?? Is that something you talk about? Or not?
So anyway, it turns out that after having two kids, she's got some serious body image issues, which are preventing her from being intimate with me. And it's tearing her up just as much as it is me.
I can kind of understand not feeling so great about your body after having kids. I was a really slim U.K. size 8 when I got married U.S. size 4 and went up 2 sizes after my 3 kids were born. I hadn't got many stretch marks but my boobs were saggy and my tummy bigger and I still think I look horrible with no clothes on.
Sadly my H a few weeks after S no3 was born looked at me (with my clothes on) and told me how huge my stomache was and I really should lose the weight. Now I was able to fit into some of my clothes and thought I looked not too bad but this really made me feel fat and ugly. I really thought well he obviously won't want to ML to me and withdrew emotionally from him.
My H has never seen me in daylight with no clothes on since that day.
Now you seem like a really caring guy and I don't know why your wife can't see that you still think she's gorgeous. If you've never said anything hurtful to her about her weight or body (even teasingly can really hurt).
Although I felt unattractive to my H I would still have wanted to ML and wouldn't have had a problem with him touching me just not with the lights on.
Lots of women HATE their bodies after having kids. Proving that in your eyes she is and always will be beautiful hopefully while not easy will be possible.
Don't have any advice on how to go about this. You seem to be saying and doing some really nice things. I still think you should tell her how bad it feels for you when you are rejected. Once she realises how it makes you feel and how much you desire her sexually it may help her realise that in your eyes she is still beautiful.
I know I bought myself some beautiful silk cami knickers and top that makes me feel I look sexy and hide what I see as my droopy bits. Hopefully others will have better advice on how to progress with this.
