BOTH of you having a foundational understanding of the underlying issues, AND a plan for recovery.
'k, gotcha. Thing is, I think she thinks that we *are* fully recovered from the EA side of things. And much of that water is already under the bridge as far as I'm concerned, too. Our primary issue right now is the lack of intimacy - and this was present before the EA.
The 'plan for recovery' needs to address her issues with intimacy.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
If she won't attend counseling with you, then I strongly recommend that you see to your finances and speak with an attorney regarding your legal options. Basically, develop an exit strategy. Then sit on it until you need it.
Already done.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
You don't have to withdraw from her, but you do need to become "lovingly detached", and realize that while you may want her, you don't need her. There is a difference.
Funny you say that, because I already know I don't *need* her. That feeling has without doubt come to me during the last few weeks, and is growing stronger daily. During our separation when I had accepted that our relationship was probably over, I started to feel excited about being single again, and I could see the benefits of that. Last few weeks, I've been having those exact same feelings all over again. Some days, a future without my wife looks much more appealing that a future with her.
Conversely, the *wanting* is still there, but right now, that feeling is definitely NOT growing.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
She needs to get fully engaged in the marriage, and that appears to be something she has never really done.
To be fair, we did get married right in the middle of the shitstorm. When you talk about the relationship instead of the marriage, she definitely was engaged - and committed. Fully. Right up until we had two kiddos. At the beginning, she left her job and sold her house to be with me.
She was also the one who was really, really pushing for marriage - I was a little doubtful about the timing because of what was going on, but she was definitely the one in the driving seat there.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
You can only "attract" her so far, at some point in time, she will have to face her responsibility to be in or out. That will likely require a push from you, even if it means she moves the wrong way.
Yep, I'm working on 'manning up' and giving her the push she (or I!) needs.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
I know she is back home and embarrassed, but she hasn't stopped looking over the fence.
Aye. I'm a champion snooper and haven't detected anything yet, but I still have my doubts, too - although I am marking those down to issues in me rebuilding my trust in her.
You love her, but you don't need her... you want her to stay and be happy and you'll go out of your way to work with her if she's open to that, but you'll be okay and you'll find happiness if she doesn't want to stay.
It was her birthday yesterday, and amongst other stuff, I'd gotten her a massage which she had straight after work, and after which she said that she hasn't felt that good in a long time. We had dinner, I poured her some wine, I bathed the kiddos, put them both to bed (which I generally do anyway, so hey ho), and came back downstairs where we sat watching TV for a while. We went up to bed a little later, where she immediately announced that she was tired, then rolled away from me and went to sleep.
This morning I woke up and cuddled her - she could feel what kind of a 'mood' I was in, and she joked something about the time or something like that, and I said "maybe we should make time once a week for this, then". Her reply: "why should I, when I don't even want to".
And I thought: yep, OK, why *should* she?
And then I thought: hmmm... so why should *I* do all the freaking housework, all the freaking laundry, all the freaking kids' school-runs, meals, bedtimes, bathtimes, when I don't particularly want to either?
But I still do 'em. Why? Because right now, while circumstances mean that I'm working here from home for the forseeable future, that's what I need to do. That's what anyone in a partnership, a relationship, a marriage, would do, right? You get stuck in and do whatever needs to be done, right?
Right?
So, why should she?
Ack. Anyway, she could tell that I was a wee bit PO'd by this, although I didn't say, or get angry or argumentative, or anything like that. I basically just headed downstairs and fixed the kids some breakfast, brought her a tea in bed, etc... just the usual stuff.
As she was leaving for work, she kissed the kids as normal, then headed over to hug and kiss me (on the lips) as normal. I kinda half-heartedly reciprocated this morning and her words were... yep, get this...
Post natal depression after both kids, coupled with the tiredness due to having kids casued her to lose her libido. The depression continued and her sex drive kept dropping until she naturally began to think that I was the reason for her feeling like this. This manifested in the EA, and her crackpot behaviour when we split. I blame the post natal depression for her being able to leave the kids with me so easily, see.
After moving out, she realised that I wasn't the problem here, which is why she made the moves to come back so quickly, and why the EA was so short lived.
However... I think the depression is still lingering, and she has self esteem/body image issues. No idea why - she really is beautiful, tall, slim, great hair. One flag I noticed recently was that just before we went off camping a couple weeks ago, she needed to buy a new swimsuit. She told me that she'd never, ever wear a bikini again because of the way she looks, and the swimsuit she almost bought (before I actually had to stop her) was the size of a freaking 8-person tent - which she believed would be the right size.
And no matter what I say to contradict what she thinks, she just laughs it off.
Jeez.
But these are only my theories. And I know there's nothing much I can do about it. Just sayin'...
Her reply: "why should I, when I don't even want to". And I thought: yep, OK, why *should* she? And then I thought: hmmm... so why should *I* do all the freaking housework, all the freaking laundry, all the freaking kids' school-runs, meals, bedtimes, bathtimes, when I don't particularly want to either? But I still do 'em.
Sounds familiar... her response, and your inner dialogue. The deal is, my friend, you gotta get past this:
Quote:
Anyway, she could tell that I was a wee bit PO'd by this, although I didn't say, or get angry or argumentative, or anything like that.
Because keeping it inside and building up the resentment is poisonous to the relationship. And its not going to get better unless you let her know clearly ... and often. And yes, it may end up causing all kinds of conflict when you open your mouth about it, but it's just something you have to do and get through if you want to do something besides seethe about it.
And keeping it in doesn't do any good at all. She can feel it radiating from you. You might as well have it out with her, unless you can really and truly let it go. And after a certain point, of course, you can't.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Quote: "Her reply: "why should I, when I don't even want to"."
So why did you not take her to task on this? That is what she wanted you to do!
Then she proceeds to take it a step further and tell you "C'mon man, make an effort!".
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Because I place great value on *both* of my testicles.
;o)
Seriously, if I for one second thought that taking her to task at precisely that moment in time would have gotten me anything other than a slap across the chops and a week's worth of sideways looks that could freeze Mexico, I'd have done it in a flash.
But yeah. Maybe she was letting me know that she wants me to. But how the hell am I supposed to know that?
Out of two almost *identical* negative reactions, which is the one where she doesn't really mean it?
She wanted you to validate HER in bed this morning, by answering her question about why you want HER, and why she should do what you want of her.
She wanted a strong response, your turned her OFF with your response.
Later on, knowing you didn't get it, she told you what to do.
Try this on for size. When you get some time alone with your wife today, sit down with her, look her straight in the eyes, and say to her "Tell me who you are. I want to know you". Then listen and learn. If she feeds you BS, then call it, shut back up and listen.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Because I place great value on *both* of my testicles.
;o)
Seriously, if I for one second thought that taking her to task at precisely that moment in time would have gotten me anything other than a slap across the chops and a week's worth of sideways looks that could freeze Mexico, I'd have done it in a flash.
And what's so bad about a slap across the chops and dirty looks?
Seriously. That's the attitude you need. You've got to get away from the mindset that a sideways look from her is unbearably painful. How can you turn her on when you're afraid of her looking at you the wrong way? Nobody like to play with somebody or something that's made of glass. Things made of glass are meant to be put on a shelf and looked at but never touched.
Originally Posted By: AmbientCoast
But yeah. Maybe she was letting me know that she wants me to. But how the hell am I supposed to know that?
Out of two almost *identical* negative reactions, which is the one where she doesn't really mean it?
It's like playing Russian Roulette.
Doesn't matter if she means it or not. For that matter, she probably doesn't even know how much she means it until after you react and she reacts to that.
You're not doing anything wrong, and if she takes it the wrong way, she'll get over it. If she doesn't, then you'll end up getting someone that constantly takes you doing perfectly reasonable things the wrong way out of your hair. And you'll be okay after that.
(Especially if she leaves the kids with you again. Weird it may be, but it's also a very good thing from your point of view. And possibly theirs.)
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 06/08/0702:19 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
