Peicing hurts like hell and is harder than...

[LoginName]

I started out in this forum. My W left, went to OM, came back and said she was sorry. I thought we were peicing. Turned out she was doing what she thought she was suppossed to do, not what she wanted to do. She moved to the basement. I thought peicing had stopped. I DBed, GALed the best I could, worked on PMA. I fought the fear and jealousy.

Then, she earned her PhD, took a job out of state. WE bought a house in the other state. WE planned on her and my daughter moving there while my son and I stayed here for him to finish H.S. (2 years to go) and for me to keep the new job that I have started.

We get along well. We go on occasional dates. We talk, we care about each other. We both focus on the kids well being. She says she does not want a divorce, and after her PhD, graduation, getting her new job as professor going, getting the new house set up, she'll be able to work on Us and our R.

We still sleep in separate rooms, rarely touch, and I still assume she will ask for a D after she has here new life set up.

I'm keeping my PMA and trying to GAL by remembering these things: 1. It's my choice. I can get a D if I want to. I have control too. 2. It's worth it to wait, to work on this, and see what happens. Patience is so hard, but I choose to wait. 3. If we were in a happy, good, M, I would be doing the same things I am now; support her, take care of kids, move her. 4. I want my M to work.

I guess I'm peicing. I didn't know it would be so incredibly hard. Many times, I think D would be easier. I could move on, let go, really GAL for me. And, I think maybe there is someone out there who would love me, say ILY, and I could love too. I still want that to be my W, but I know eventually, I'll want someone in that role. It hurts to keep all this love inside, and not to show it to her, for fear of making her feel it's a demand for her to reciprocate. No demands. No expectations on her (as best I can).

She has been in the new state, new house for the last week. I've been home with the kids. I am a good parent, and we have fun together. If nothing else, through it all, even when my W was with OM, I kept the kids first. She is coming home tonight.

I love to talk to her. I love to be with her. It kills me to talk to her and to be with her. I want to work on us. I want her to say she wants us to work and that she wants to work on us. I want her to touch me. Just sit next to me on the couch while we watch TV would be such a great start. I don't expect her to sleep with me now, or even soon (although it would be great.) In fact, if she did say she wanted to sleep with me, I might say no. I don't know if I could stand it. I doubt I'd be able to sleep. It would be such pleasure and such pain, bitter sweet.

And sex would really be a struggle. I would have to take it really slowly. When I ask myself why doesn't she love me, I end up thinking of the OM. Maybe it's becaus she loves him. If we ML, I would think of him, or I might. How could I compare? I feel I wouldn't be so jealous and insecure if she could tell me she wants me, and loves me. Then nothing else would matter.

If we were Divorced, I could move on, I think. It would hurt like hell, but at least I'd be able to really concentrate on myself. I'd be free to start over. At least, that's how it feels. I don't want a D. I can chose, and I chose to work on my M.

Peicing is so slow. Patience is so hard to come by. Love stinks. What is love? If I can keep this up, I know the possible outcomes are all good (a good M, or a better me, more understanding either way) but the cost is high.

If she'd just touch me... it would hurt so good. That's part of the problem. If she touches me and I overreact, she'll pull back. I need to be cool.

And yet, it's kind of like we are dating again. She has even said that in a way. How do I date her, if I can't show her my feelings without pushing her away? How do I romance her without it feeling like I'm pushing her to love me more? I want her to think of me as a man, as a date, and eventually as a lover (not just physical) and not as just a good roommate and good friend and good co-parent. I was never good at dating, or being the great romancer. I've always been a better friend. She fell for me because I was a good listener and friend.

Patience.

I have been off the boards for a while. I've learned a lot. This is my first post, and it's about me, but I intend on sharing my thoughts with you all, and maybe I can help someone else. Because, damn it, we are peicing. The odds are slightly in our favor. This DB stuff has largely worked.

Good luck, y'all.

[cat03]

hey there, sorry it has been so hard lately.

Keep up the usual, dating, just spend sometime together keeping no expectations, just try and enjoy having her around. Would she go to C?

When physical affection lacks it hurts so, I remember. Would she allow you to hold her hand? would she read a R book w/you? As someone said here a while ago, to feel love, you have to do loving things (gestures), it is hard for the WAS who comes back to understand this.

Keep being who you are, the good listener and friend. It hurts to think this way, but the old R is gone, it's like starting something you, you and her have changed after your ordeal. Now you both have to learn to love the new "you".
Start slow, if she allows you to hold her hand for a little while, good, keep it at first base for a while and go from there. Mostly find something to do that you both truly enjoy and don't focus about doing/saying the wrong thing.

[LoginName]

Hi Cat03, Thanks for posting. I don't post nearly as often as I used to, and I get very few responses. I treasure the posts and advice I do get, but sometimes feel I'm posting for myself anymore - just journaling, and hoping sometimes that someone like yourself will respond.

I'm packing the truck for the move. I've read on these boards of others packing their spouse for separation. God, it's hard. I'm ding well though - keeping a smile on my face and being happy for her, and for us. But I wish she knew how hard it was for me, but I can't tell her that.

We had gone to some MC. It was generally good. The C thought we were over the hump and would make it. He also thought I would be moving with my W, and that she wanted me to go. I'm not going with her, and she wouldn't stop me from joining her, but really wants to try this on her own, away from me. I'd like to go back to MC, to see if I'm making a mistake, if I'm doing the right things, if there is some insight we are missing. I don't think she would be interested, but I haven't asked.

She does accept an occasiional hug, and even initiates one, occassionally. She might accept me holding her hand. It's hard to tell.

The best and hardest advice through this whole ordeal has been patience. I think that's what you are telling me too. Thanks for the support.

I've read some of your posts. Are you one of those that made it, or are making it? you've busted your divorce? I hope so. Knowing real examples of people that have made it really helps (like Grasshopper, and Toughlover, although I really miss them).

I don't know how being 4 states, 15 hours, apart can help us rebuild our marriage, but I also feel she has to take this job and that means moving.

Rebuilding, making a new R ... sure wish there was a road map, milestones, or something. I haven't dated in over 23 yeasr, but I think dating a stranger would be easier than this.

Fun. thanks.

[cat03]

hi, to answer your question yes, I'm making it, you never stop working so I won't claim I've made it. But my H is almost 99% himself again and I can say we are happy w/our M. There is always room for improvement but from this time around last year when he'd bundle up himself on the sheets and move to the edge of the bed away from me..we've come a long way.

Does she want to prove she can have a live on her own? what's the point?

Life is too short not to speak up and do what you truly want to do. If you want to join her tell her so, that you want her in your life, that you want to rebuild your M and being appart isn't going to help (at least I dont' think it will, without daily interaction, how can you learn to love/know each other?)
I'm no one to tell you what to do, I know you are staying so your son finishes high school, but at what cost? If she wants some time alone, all summer would be plenty and enough, then come the school year your son can start at the new state.

If your able to see your C, do so, it seemed to be helping and I dont' see a reason to stop now.

I wish you the best, and I hear you, piecing is as hard as being separated somedays.

Yes I do missed GH and TL too, they helped me so much in my trial by fire.

[*KS*Chick*]

just wanted to pop in and say hi LIN

It's UA (I changed my name LOL)

Sorry you're struggling but good to see you in piecing. I wanted to get here too. Maybe in time.

[LoginName]

Hi UA, or KSChick, or.....
Thanks for popping in. I try to stay up with your sitch, and I guess there have been some bad events recently. I'm really sorry, and I hope they have already been overcome.

I'm thinking of writing a post of wisdom I've learned and read on this site, and the #1 lesson would be, Have Patience. It aint over 'til it's over and even then it's not over.

I would ask for an update from you, but that seems unfair. I'll keep trying to keep up with you. Good luck.

[*KS*Chick*]

no real update. He says the same things he said 8 months ago and he still says he wants to move forward. Waiting on God's hand to move huge...

[LoginName]

Cat, so good to hear you're making it. Where one goes, others may follow. Believe it or not, and maybe I'm totally deluding myself, but I think I have slightly better than 50-50 chance of this M working. Maybe that doesn't sound too optimistic, but it's better than it could be.

To give you my perspective on my W's feelings and motivations: (and I know I can't read her mind, but this is what I've deduced from our MC sessions and talks).
1. She felt that she was "uber" responsible for everything; kids, house, me, etc.
2. She felt that I expected too much and there was no way she could live up to those expectations. It made her feel like a failure.
3. She gave me the ILYBINILWY speech. She feel out of love with me. I think she is willing, and maybe a little hopeful, that she will fall in love with me again.
Exacerbating circumstances:
1. She had a stressful job she quit about 4 years ago.
2. she has been working on her Phd for the last 10 years
3. I've had a job I was not happy with.
4. She had a crappy childhood, and felt she was the adult of hte family (mother had drug/alcohol problems).
So.... She does want to try living alone, only being responsible for herself, using her PhD, having a good job and good self esteem. She wants to feel love. (she says she doesn't believe in that teenage lust type love, but it sounds to me that is what she is waiting to feel).

She says, and I hold onto this as being true, that after she finishes her Phd (this month) gets herself set up in the new job (maybe by Sept?) then she wants to think and work on the R. She doesn't want a D. She doesn't want to date others. I guess she wants a non-legal separation.

I have supported her in her PhD, job (eventhough it's out of state) because I can see that if she contiunues to 'sacrifice' her happiness for me and the kids, she can never love me again. I believe she needs to feel good about herself and feel free for a while before she can realize that she can be free and be married to me. I'm staying here for my son, but more for my W, so she can do what she thinks she needs to do. I may lose. She may feel so good being alone, she'll decide she doesn't want me. She may meet someone else and decide she has found 'true love'. It's a huge risk. I think it's my best shot.

Maybe because I've got an HMO, the MC kind of kicked us out, said we were going to make it, no need to see him, go have a good life. I'm sure he's see us or me again if I asked though.

sometimes, like today, I'm ready for the D. Is she worth it? Why put up with this? I have friends, I don't need her as just a friend. Hell, she's not that interting, fun, or attractive (of course, sometimes, I think the exact opposite). I could move on, and maybe, if I wanted to, find someone who could say ILY to me, and that would welcome it when I said it to her.

We are in the process of selling our house here in CO. We have painters there now. We thought it was understood and OK that we would live there while the painting was going on. Turns out, that's a lot more difficult than we thought. We're thinking of getting a hotel room during the painting. The thought that we would be in a hotel, and she would not share a bed with me, really hurts. And the thought of sleeping in the same bed as my 6'3", smelly teenage son isn't appealling either. I'm coming to the conclussion that this is part of the patience I need. I can do this. I can't push her or force it.

thanks again cat. I'm really happy it's working for you. Has your relationship largely gone back to how it was, only better, or have there been big changes, in you, in him?

My W and I are building a new R. Funny to do that with someone you've been married to for 22+ years, and dated for about 7. What will this new R be like? Will I like it?

[LoginName]

Cat03,
Maybe you know better how to navigate these boards. I get frustrated trying to find what I'm looking for sometimes. Now, I'm looking for you thread,story, sitch. Can you point me to it? Reading some success will brighten my spirits.
Thanks,

[LoginName]

I can't believe how weird this all is. Here I am, with a W who says ILYBINILWY, who left me for OM, left our kids, and now I'm acting as if everything is fine, except we don't sleep in the same bed, and if I say ILY to her, she feels like I'm pressuring her. Weird.

And, I've packed her up so she can move to another state. I've given my consent to her taking my daughter with her (god, I'll miss her!). I've basically bought a house in that state (co-signed anyway). I'm selling my house (our house). Then, to make it really surreal, she is graduating today with her PhD, the house is covered in plastic for the painters, and we leave on Sunday to drive to Arkansas and move her in. The plastic covered house is the weirdest bit. We didn't know they would do it this way. Everything is covered, so we can't get to our clothes, chairs, toothbrushes.

And really strange - I'm keeping it together. I'm sleeping, mostly. I'm able to work, mostly. I don't R talk (at least not more than weekly ;-) ). Sometimes I can't believe I can even breath, with the pain and sadness. Sometimes I can't believe I don't tell her to just get the h@ll out of my life and stop the torture. This is a real twilight zone. Spooky.

Not to sound too egotistical, but if this is a test, I think I'm passsing. Even if she doesn't decide to be with me, I've passed. I'm doing the right thing, I'm taking the high road (as toughlover adviced me often to do). I'm strong, and getting stronger. I definately don't have it all figured out, but I'm doing it. If she leaves me, it will hurt, but I already know I'll be ok, and maybe better than ok.

what a long strange trip it's been.