So, what was the timeline on her Dad's death, the financial failure, and the EA/PA?
Also, does your wife work full time?
How many kids?
Where did they stay during the separation?
Quote: "But, like I said, it didn't last long, she was super embarrassed about it (friends and family noticed this immediately), and she's genuinely apologised for what happened. Not that I'm condoning it, but I can forgive."
Forgiveness, when it is time, is appropriate, but you don't just walk past an affair with some embarrassment, and a claim of no solid reason for the action. That would be like driving your car over a cliff, "just because".
The embarrassment makes sense, as people do goofy things because of affairs, such as wearing diapers while traveling cross-country to kidnap your ex's girlfriend. Obviously your wife came to her senses at some point. That is good.
Not talking about it, and understanding WHY she did it, is a recipe for a repeat performance.
I urge you not to take this matter lightly, and get some marriage centric counseling, or if you can't afford it, let me recommend a couple of books for both of you to read.
If your wife won't participate, then I would insist that she do. If she still won't, then I recommend you get some individual counseling and make sure that you set yourself up to be financially independent.
I am glad that you have read SSM, and I hope that your wife will as well. SSM was the catalyst that started the recovery in my marriage.
Having said that, I think that your marriage has issues that SSM doesn't address, and that need to be explored before you and your wife are going to find emotional intimacy. Still too many elephants about...
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
The sex/intimacy thing dropped off big time after our D was born almost exactly 3 years ago.
However, let me start a few months earlier...
Around January 2004, we decided to move closer to where my parents were living for help with babysitting - we had a S (then 3, now 6) and my wife was pregnant with our D (now 3).
So, we sold the house we were living in, and because I was self-employed with a lucrative freelance contract for a pretty prestigious company, we decided that I'd work from home. I put this to the company I had the contract with and they were fine with me being based remotely full time instead of a combination of at home and based in their office as I had been doing.
So we sold our house and bought a big 5 bed house by the beach, closer to my parents, with a bigger mortgage etc, etc. However, the day before we shipped our stuff out, in March 2004, the company I had the contract with decided that they weren't happy about me working remotely. Nice timing on their part, huh? They gave me the option of staying with them - they'd pay all travelling/hotel expenses - as long as I spent at least 3 days a week with them in their office.
This was something I couldn't agree to as I couldn't leave my heavily pregnant wife in a new house, in a new area, with our S3 all by themselves for at least 4 days of the week - every week.
And we couldn't back out of the new house, either - we'd already bought it.
So that contract - which formed pretty much 95% of my income - disappeared virtually overnight.
So there we were, in a big house with a big mortgage, another baby on the way and the arse had fallen out of my business.
Anyway, the plan was to build my business up again from scratch and find a new local client base, etc, etc. This was tougher than expected because the area we'd moved to didn't really have enough business available to me, so it was becoming a struggle to make ends meet.
Then our D was born in May 2004 which stepped up the pressure on me to grow this business and meet the bigger mortgage payment.
Then, later that month, still May 2004, My W's dad was diagnosed with late stage cancer. So, for the rest of that year, until October 2004 when he died, we spent almost every weekend travelling to the other end of the country so my W could see her dad. This drained our finances even more as we were paying for a hotel each time we went down there as my W's parents had sold their house a couple years previously to travel round Europe on a boat - and they were still living on the boat.
Ack. I think my W seeing her dad deteriorate that quickly impacted her more than she'll admit.
In September 2004, we also got married. Don't laugh, but the date was 9/11. Jeez. Marriage was always something we were going to do - it's just that we rushed it through so her dad could be there to see it.
Tough year, huh? But life went on. For the next 12-18 months or so, business was pretty shitty and money was tight. Plus, the house we'd bought turned out to be a serious, serious money pit. It needed a new roof (which we couldn't afford, so we ended up with drip buckets all over the place) new plumbing, and new electrics amongst other stuff - all of which we'd have been able to manage if I hadn't lost that contract in the first place.
As you can imagine, this led to all kinds of stresses and strains at home - we argued a lot, we had two super small kids with us, we had zero cash, and to be honest, we were each other's worst enemy. Plus, my parents weren't as forthcoming with babysitting/helping out as we'd expected them to be - so our social life took a hammering, too.
We also had mounting debts as we'd been getting by day to day on credit cards - stupid in hindsight, but it was so easy and we had little choice.
Then, in February 2006, a fairly bad winter, the heating gave up in the house - and we ended up borrowing money to pay for it to be fixed. This was the cause of one of the biggest arguments we've ever had. I was reluctant to rush out and borrow money because we were already in so much debt. My wife is more of a 'quick-fix' person and she wanted to borrow straight away - and she resented the fact that I wanted to see if there was some other way we could get the heating back online.
Early 2006, I also noticed that my W was in the mirror a LOT, telling everyone how 'old' she looked, talking about wrinkles, blah, blah, blah. This is rubbish - she's late 30's but can easily pass off as late 20's. But I think the seeds of something were being sown right there.
So, in April 2006, I discovered her chatting online to this 23 or 24YO EA kid and I confronted her about this - and she instantly, no-discussion, stated that the marriage was over, that I'd been "dumped", and for me to "get over it". Amongst other things that were *totally* out for character for her. She also said that maybe she thought she was having some kind of 'life crisis'. Now I know the online thing hadn't been going on long because I was working at home and she hadn't been in her job long. She also didn't have the software on her computer to be able to do it. And it was only around then that I'd started noticing her coming to bed late, etc, etc, etc.
So, from April 2006 until June 2006, we lived in separate rooms in the house - things were super tense, she didn't wear her ring, and she was pretty damned hurtful to me - for seemingly no reason. I journaled much of this period on another forum, and her behaviour was weird to say the least.
She moved out of our house into a rented room in June 2006 - leaving the kids, then 5 and 2, with me - although she came back almost every other night, and every weekend. Except for one weekend mid June where I now know she flew out to meet the EA kid. But, there was only that one weekend that I couldn't really account for her whereabouts.
Then, what was weird was that with every time she came back to the house through July & August 2006, she'd become more affectionate to me and as she left to go back to her rented room, we'd have long hugs and she'd kiss me on the lips each time. I think it was truly hurting her to leave every time. Eventually, she began 'sleeping over' at our house again, in the spare room at first, then in our bed, until eventually, we made the decision that it was pointless her continuing to pay for the rented room and she moved back in with us.
Now, prior to all this sh!t, I'd put the lack of intimacy down to having two super young kids, financial worries, the impact of her dad's illness, etc, etc. All of these things are pretty much now gone - we're in a smaller, much more affordable house, she started a new job a few months ago, the kids are older and don't take up quite so much of our time, yet the intimacy thing has lingered.
I've given it since August last year - which was when she moved back in - for us to get over the hurt and to move closer again. It's only recently - the last 3 or 4 weeks - that I've been questioning the intimacy/sex thing with her. Only for her to tell me that she has no interest in it at all - and apparently, never has.
And yes, I can talk about this until I'm out of breath. It's getting my W to open up that's the tough thing.
Oh, and Mrs AC, if you *ever* find yourself here and read what I'm writing - don't get mad. I'm doing this because I want US to be good all over again, 'k.
I think cleaning up your financial house was the most important thing you could have done, and it'll still take a while for her to get over it.
Nothing stresses out a woman, especially one with kids, as much as financial problems. No matter how much she "knows" better, deep in her mind, that's your job and if it turns out you can't do it, she's made a terrible mistake in settling down with you.
Did she work before all this trouble started? If not, she may on some level still be holding the fact that she now has to work against you.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Finances, her dad, instability all definitely affected her. Very common reaction on her part.
You two have processed virtually nothing.
The biggest issue is her leaving her children. That is huge, and NOT to be taken lightly.
You need to insist on some counseling, really. You two are not going to solve this on your own.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
The biggest issue is her leaving her children. That is huge, and NOT to be taken lightly.
That's the biggest issue? How so? What does it signify, and how exactly does it affect their prognosis? She was leaving them with their father, not abandoning them.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Instead of my male perspective, I will postpone my reply and invite the ladies here to comment.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Nail on the head. Pleased you spotted that - I intentionally didn't make a big deal out of it in my post just to see if anyone was *really* paying attention. ;o) That was the thing that most everyone did a double-take on when they found out - our female friends especially.
It smacks of midlife crisis, however you define it. She was looking for a *complete* change in her life. No broken house, no debt, no me, no kids.
Only she found out that a lifestyle change wasn't what she was looking for after all.
You're right, though, there is a lot going on here. I've obviously suggested counselling, but she's DEAD against it. In fact, if I insist on it, and tell her the marriage is over if she doesn't agree to it, I suspect that I might as well be saying my goodbyes to her anyway. Like I said, she's not one to 'talk'.
Sometimes (and quite often these days), it feels like I need to start getting myself emotionally ready for when that day comes. But that means pulling away - to protect myself - and that seems like the wrong thing to do under the circumstances.
I guess I need to just get my boots on and wade in before too long and just brace myself, eh?
Quote: "Incidentally, what do you mean by processing?"
BOTH of you having a foundational understanding of the underlying issues, AND a plan for recovery.
If she won't attend counseling with you, then I strongly recommend that you see to your finances and speak with an attorney regarding your legal options. Basically, develop an exit strategy. Then sit on it until you need it.
You don't have to withdraw from her, but you do need to become "lovingly detached", and realize that while you may want her, you don't need her. There is a difference.
She needs to get fully engaged in the marriage, and that appears to be something she has never really done. You can only "attract" her so far, at some point in time, she will have to face her responsibility to be in or out. That will likely require a push from you, even if it means she moves the wrong way.
I know she is back home and embarrassed, but she hasn't stopped looking over the fence.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Sometimes (and quite often these days), it feels like I need to start getting myself emotionally ready for when that day comes. But that means pulling away - to protect myself - and that seems like the wrong thing to do under the circumstances.
It is the wrong thing to do. The difference between "pulling away" and "loving detachment" is a tricky one, but you need loving detachment to have the best shot at straightening things out.
In one case, you build up "walls" and push her away because you can't bear to hear that she hates you. In the other, you connect with her, open up to her, and listen to her, knowing and accepting that she'll express anger, hurt, disappointment, or disapproval, and still be okay when she does it. You love her, but you don't need her... you want her to stay and be happy and you'll go out of your way to work with her if she's open to that, but you'll be okay and you'll find happiness if she doesn't want to stay.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
