What caused the hope for reconciliation in your previous post?
I can't imagine it's easy to go from wanting to be divorced to thinking you want to stay married. Your W is probably having a lot of inner turmoil.
I wonder how many marriages disolve because one spouse is just too proud to go back to a marriage and work on it? I'll bet a lot. The fear of things going back to the way they were is looming at all times. And if one of the spouses isn't bought in to improving themself, it's not gonna happen long-term, I don't think.
Anyway, good luck with your situation, I really hope things work out the best for you!!! _________________________ 1st concern and priority: the comfort, the well-being and the happiness of my spouse.
There is much need for discipline in marriage, not of one's companion, but of one's self.
What caused the hope for reconciliation in your previous post?
She called me up to tell me something about one of the kids. Every time there was a lull in the conversation she wouldn't say she has to go like she usually does. So, after a few seconds I'd bring up something non-R to say.
A couple of times during the lulls I'd ask her what's on her mind. She'd say, "Nothing." Well, finally during a lull we were silent for what seemed like forever and she finally said, "I guess I'll let you go." To which I firmly said, "W, what's on your mind?"
She got a little angry and said, "We've been separated 7 months and I keep calling hoping you will want to talk about our R, but you never do." So, we got into a long talk about our R which ended up being more of, "You did (whatever terrible thing)." To which I'd respond, "Well, I did that because you did (whatever terrible thing)."
When I brought up the fact that OM still wasn't out of her life after over a year of this crap she had the nerve to tell me she kept OM around because I was being such a jerk. To which I responded, "I was being such a jerk because OM was still around." So, we always get into these circular arguments and she never admits that just maybe she was in the wrong.
We agreed to stop talking about things that happened in the past. Then she started saying she couldn't trust me because I'd lied to her so much in the past.
That's not actually true. I lied to her about one thing. After we finally separated I got involved with an OW mainly because she'd had an OM for over a year. It was a big mistake on my part. When she started talking about reconciling 5 months ago though I felt I owed it to her to come clean on that. She took it terribly and now in her mind I've lied to her about many things throughout our marriage.
She's the one who has lied. She's lied about where she's been, who she's with, and even lied about money. You see, my W isn't exactly right in the head. She doesn't see things the way most people do. She can think of every justification for keeping OM around or anything else she does that's unacceptable in a relationship, but me getting involved with someone else is much worse no matter that I at least waited until we were separated and she told me we were definitely through.
If ever there's any damage in any of her relationships, it's up to the other person to fix it. She's been mad at her sister for months now and I got really tired of hearing about it.
Anyway, during that discussion I told her we needed to go out to dinner one night and talk about it face to face. She agreed but she doesn't seem to be in any hurry to do it. Then again, I don't know that I am either. Who wants to be with someone that in their head can justify any behavior they engage in but thinks if I engage in the same or similar behavior it's terrible?
She is no longer who she was when we married. I remember when we first got married her belief was, "If you think about cheating, that's cheating." Later that became, "If you seriously think about cheating, like planning how you can get away with it, that's cheating." Later, "I seriously thought about it when I was out at the bar one night (alone, like always) and this guy from Europe invited me to go to his room. I thought he'd be going back to Europe tomorrow and no one would ever know. But, I didn't go through with it." (I actually don't believe that since she kept a couple of reminders of him and he tried to contact her to invite her to Florida later that year, I have no way of knowing for sure though.)
Still later she started talking about having an "open marriage". This is when our R really started getting strained. I knew this was not what I wanted and I started feeling uncomfortable around her. Then later I get her to admit to a PA with the OM who has been around for two years now.
Honestly, if I didn't have children, I would be happy to let her go her own way. I do still love her, but I pity her now too and she isn't worth all the trouble. She's a confused mess but most people who have frequent contact with her don't see it because they only see what she wants them to see. I'm one of the few who truly know all of the things she's done in the past few years. Without the kids I'd be happy just to be there for her whenever she needs a friend.
Sorry for the rant. There's a few weeks of pent up frustration in there since I haven't posted in a while.
Believe me, without the little rants, we would all have had to manifest our frustrations in other ways, and that may not necessarily be pretty.
Hope you're giving yourself some credit for your patience and for having the foresight of remembering your kids in this situation. Sometimes we get wrapped up in the moment to think about our kids and how they will be affected by all this.
hey- sorry you are still milling about these boards. you and i have so much in common with our situations. have you tried just letting your W go on and on about whatever is making her so unhappy without interruption? one thing that has helped me is just to listen and empathize with my H when he is talking about things i did that hurt him. remember perception is reality. your wife truly believes you have done these things to her, and no amount of convincing, explanation and finger pointing is going to help. part of healing is being heard. once your M is more stable, then you get your turn. or you just decide to let it go. in the long run, seriously, who gives a sh#t who did what to whom.
i don't know. who am i to give advice. i got back in the door, and have been living with a miserable H ever since.
hey- sorry you are still milling about these boards. you and i have so much in common with our situations. have you tried just letting your W go on and on about whatever is making her so unhappy without interruption? one thing that has helped me is just to listen and empathize with my H when he is talking about things i did that hurt him. remember perception is reality. your wife truly believes you have done these things to her, and no amount of convincing, explanation and finger pointing is going to help. part of healing is being heard. once your M is more stable, then you get your turn. or you just decide to let it go. in the long run, seriously, who gives a sh#t who did what to whom.
Actually, perception is the inability to deal with reality. The reality is this woman did as many if not more bad things than this man, and she's unable to deal with the reality.
Now, I agree 100% that arguing about the past is worthless. Don't defend your actions. say, "I was wrong to think/do/say that, I can and will do better now, I will continue to improve and it will be better than ever."
Disengage the argument and start looking to the future for solutions (come on, that's Michelle's whole thing! Solutions-based counseling!) Give that a shot and see what happens. Focus on fixing yourself, you can't fix yur wife. If you improve and she doesn't, work on yourself some more until it's obvious one thing or the other is going to happen. When it does you're better off regardless. My $.02
We can talk ourselves into defeat or we can talk ourselves into victory - we are creatures of our thinking.
3/31/07 - Hit with a brick, leaving the dent there...
Just another update. I took W out to dinner Thursday night. Dinner was nice enough. She thanked me for buying her dinner.
The whole point of the dinner was to talk about our R, which we didn't do until after dinner. Here's what I got out of her.
1. She is very hurt by the fact that I said she was an "unfit mother". (Again, not what I said, but that's still what she heard.) But, this is the biggest hurdle for her to overcome out of everything else.
2. She doesn't want a divorce. At least the idea of divorcing doesn't stick well with her anyway.
3. She said her love for me went away completely when I said she was an "unfit mother" and she can't just turn that back on. She thought I was supposed to be there for her and support her no matter what.
4. She said she though it would be nice if we could take the kids to Florida for a couple of days this summer. She knows someone who can let us use a condo for free. But she didn't know about this because for me it's "all or nothing". Meaning to me we're either together or we're not. I told her that's not true, I had thought about us taking the kids to Disney World even if it meant we stayed in separate rooms myself.
So, my wife is still thoroughly confused about what she wants. I'm still thoroughly confused about her actions. I still have that nagging feeling that if she could support herself then she'd definitely want to divorce. The only thing keeping her from doing it is fear that she'd end up living in complete poverty. I guess I'll find that out soon enough. S5 starts school this year so she'll have no more excuses about not being able to work.
After being on my own for almost 10 months now I'm starting to get quite lonely too. I mentioned that because she asked if I wanted to move on. She said she told me I could date. But, it just doesn't seem right to me. I've seen enough broken hearts lately. Why would I want to get some woman's hopes up only to go back to my wife?
I just think after all this time if she can't decide what she wants then she's never going to. Or maybe she is trying to force me to make the decision.
She also admitted that she knows she has no self-esteem left and turning back to OM after we split was not the best move. She said she only did it because he was the only one who didn't turn his back on her.
I no longer have access to her emails and I'll have to admit I wish I did. That was the only way I could ever find out the truth in the past and it's the only way now. If she's still sending him provocative emails then I'd know I'm just being played.
I just discovered your old thread had locked up and wanted to check in.
Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCra
1. She is very hurt by the fact that I said she was an "unfit mother". (Again, not what I said, but that's still what she heard.) But, this is the biggest hurdle for her to overcome out of everything else.
I understand this, but anyone who hangs onto a single event...true or untrue...has other problems. We have all had someone say something bad about or to us in our lives and most of us are not permanently crippled by it. If she can't (or won't) move beyond this one thing, then I think it's an excuse. Rather than admitting she doesn't want to do the hard work required for reconciliation, she points to this as the reason she can't.
Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCra
3. She said her love for me went away completely when I said she was an "unfit mother" and she can't just turn that back on. She thought I was supposed to be there for her and support her no matter what.
Again with this. See above.
Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCra
She told me I could date.
To me, this is a red flag. I find it difficult to imagine anyone saying something like this if they had any intention whatsoever of wanting to work things out! More than anything else, this concerns me and were I in your shoes, I'd be wary. That does not mean I think you should date before you are divorced (I don't). It just means that I think right now she is very, very far away from reconciling.
Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCra
I just think after all this time if she can't decide what she wants then she's never going to.
Probably correct.
Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCra
Or maybe she is trying to force me to make the decision.
Doubtful.
Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCra
I no longer have access to her emails and I'll have to admit I wish I did.
It's just as well you don't. There's no need to torture yourself with them. Anyway, do you really think you need to see them to know what's going on?
Perfect timing OF. I haven't checked on here in a few days but I needed to check in. I am planning on filing for D but I still have that nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "Just hang in there and one of these days you'll figure out the one thing you can do to get her back."
I'm really quite a mess I suppose. I let her do it to me though. I talked to her tonight again and now that nagging voice is louder. It tells me, "There has to be something you can do by the way she's talking."
So much is always said during these conversations that I forget half of her points. I do remember she complained that I got her absolutely nothing for mother's day. She said if I couldn't afford a card (I literally had $2 to my name on that day) that a hand-written one would have meant more anyway.
I didn't do it, but I wanted to point out that our last two anniversaries she didn't get me a card when I did get her cards. I got squat for father's day too. At least I did tell her happy mother's day. She didn't even acknowledge father's day.
She said when we went out to dinner she was enjoying spending time with me. But then I had to go and start bringing up the past again and make her feel terrible about herself.
D8 asked me last night if W and I were ever going to get divorced. I said, "Probably." She then asked if when someone calls a person their "boyfriend" if it always means "boyfriend" or can it mean a friend who's a boy. I told her "boyfriend" means "boyfriend". She then asked if a person can have a boyfriend and a husband at the same time. I told her, "No, they're not supposed to." I asked her why she was asking and she said she heard W refer to OM as her boyfriend when talking to someone else.
I told W about this and said she may want to talk to D8 about it because she seems to be confused. W said I'm not her husband - I don't tuck her in at night or hold her, etc... I mentioned that I am her husband when it's convenient for her. In fact she scolded me not too long ago for implying that I wasn't her husband if we weren't together.
There really is no winning an argument with her but I keep trying. Even after a "professional" told me I wasn't being irrational and W was, I still don't seem to be able to believe it. W makes me feel like I'm the one who's irrational; she's perfectly OK.
I really think there is something wrong with me. Some of the things that come out of her mouth most people just can't believe she'd say. It's totally irrational to most people (in fact everyone I've talked to). But I seem to be a master at making excuses for her. I know that I just really need to give up; but, I can't seem to do it. I'm so confused I don't know how much longer I can take it.
I was just thinking of something else she said tonight. She says things similar to this all the time.
She said I always blame her for our marriage going bad and I take no responsibility. I've taken my share of the responsibility several times. I told her I know I wasn't perfect and I made plenty of mistakes that contributed to the downfall of our marriage. Her response - "I don't believe you."
I mean, what can I say to that? If she doesn't believe what I say then what's the point?
