LFL'S Next Thread

[MJontheMend]

In the "Joy of Sex" (old version) under the Topic Men(by him for her)the author writes

Personal folklore apart, what the male turn-on equipment requires is the exact reverse of a virgin or passively recipient instrument-not a demand situation because that in itself can threaten a turn-off from inadequacy-feelings, but a skill situation; I can turn you on and turn myself on in doing so, and from that point we play it both ways and together.

The problem a woman encounters when interacting with a man who is LD or lacking in sexual confidence (not necessarily the same thing in my book)is that there is often not enough of a margin of error between presenting yourself as a "passively recipient instrument" or "creating a demand situation". It's difficult to have to tread the fine line between being too subtle to turn-on a man who lacks interest and being so bold that you threaten a man who lacks interest. Present yourself without the red high heels and you are informed that you aren't making adequate effort. Present yourself with the red high heels and you are commanding a performance and applying too much pressure. Maddening.

As a single woman I might hesitate to some extent in being sexually assertive with a man but the reason wouldn't be that I would be afraid of turning the average guy off, it would be that I would be afraid of, in a sense, giving him no choice about whether to be sexual with me. That's why I, for instance,would never walk up to a guy in a bar and grab his package. I understand that for physical and cultural reasons most men have a hard time saying "No". That's why I want a guy to signal strong interest first. Which is why it sucks that due to all this PC cr*p the men are waiting for "permission" to be even slightly sexual. It puts an awkward little unnatural step in the dance. (Of course, my highly ingrained skill set and pattern of arousal is such that pretty much you are going to end up having sex with me if you kiss me so I guess that's where I draw the line and feel free to become assertive or at least highly actively responsive.- LOL)

[mrsc]

I never made enough milk and had to supplement from the time we left the hospital. I was never engorged. After a month I threw in the towel. I believe my lack of milk was caused in part by my sexuality issues as well as medical problems/meds. I regret not quitting sooner because I missed out on early bonding with my baby. Once I switched completely to formula I was able to start enjoying him a lot more.

DS has been at the top of the charts in weight, and weighed almost 22 lbs. at 6 months. He's always been a big boy.

BTW, I never sterilized my bottles. I just ran them through the dishwasher. I mixed up formula by the jug. I've never thought of women who BFed as lazy, but maybe that's because it was so hard for me! I always thought I took the easy way out.

But back to the topic at hand -- I agree with you that lack of communication can ruin anyone's sex life. That's just what I said to cac earlier. THAT is at the root of most SL/marriage problems. Too bad we don't get instruction at the outset on how to live with the opposite sex.

[MJontheMend]

LFL- I wanted to emphasize that although my last post sounded negative, I do think there is hope in your sich that both you and your H could expand your "skill sets" and communication to the extent that your sex life could become more mutually satisfactory. Obviously, based on my last post on my own thread, my 2bx's issues were something beyond simple lack of confidence or drive. The reason "my" sexual "skills" never worked with my 2bx had a lot to do with the fact that they were "my" sexual "skills". That is why when I would, for example, make real attempts to increase my physical attractiveness they would often fail. The cute hip-hop outfit that got me validation from strangers got me insults from my 2bx because it was such a strong statement of my individuality.

[LustForLife]

In your case, unless your husband has had many partners, it seems unfair to expect him to understand your sexuality just because he is male, regardless of where he might actually fit on the "drive scale" at any given point in time.

I do understand this point. It is good to hear it though. I think I do make the false assumption at times that he should "get" me more. It's not like he doesn't have experience with women or advanced psych degrees. So it is frustrating at times. It's almost like he tunes it out or something. I remember when we used to work together right before we got M. Women were constantly hitting on him at work, sometimes right in front of me. He seemed oblivious. Even when we were S, I asked him if women at work were interested in him. He seemed puzzled, but then recalled "oh yeah, this one woman asked me out." It was like unless they were completely direct with him he didn't "catch on" to their interest. He still does that with me I feel. I have to very assertive/direct with him or it goes unnoticed.

It is always fun to find someone that intuitively "gets you" sexually. In most encounters, my experience has been that you have to communicate with your partner in order for both of you to have the best experience possible.

Yes, it is fun when someone gets you because you don't have to do as much hard work it seems. The communication part is tricky for us but we are getting better. Still wish it came more naturally, but it is what it is.
LFL

[LustForLife]

Well, maybe you were joking, but it sounded like you were (partly) blaming LDW for the sex problems of HDW. That would be unfair IMO.

I agree, it wouldn't be fair.
Point taken.

LDW are getting the short end of the stick too because of our society. They are missing out and they don't even know it. I was one of them. Many have been programmed to believe sex is dirty and because of this they can't enjoy a fulfulling sex life. There are certainly many other causes at play too. Being LD certainly isn't a walk in the park.

Well, I still think people need to take personal responsibility for this issue. Of course our society influences us and our sexuality, but it seems unfair to say it is society to blame for the crappy SL in a M. That person is well aware it is causing problems between the two people and using society as the reason for LD just seems counter-productive. Not saying that is what you meant, just making a point.

Who is looking at HDW as freaks? LDW? The HDW's LDH? Just curious. This labeling seems to bother you, but it doesn't make you feel like a victim? Again, just curious.

The label doesn't "bother" me per se, I don't mind being different. But I know that other people will judge, like you were saying. I am personally quite content with who I am but it is hard sometimes to be "me" with my H and others around me because I do feel somewhat judged, and therefore may suppress myself. It is not being a victim, it is just trying to function effectively in the M and world around me.

I get defensive when I think I'm being judged or compared to someone else and I fall short.

I understand. I think most people would.

I think women get defensive because they're accustomed to having to defend their "female" positions to other women.

It probably goes back to "law of the jungle". A feminine woman is always going to attract the masculine males. The interesting part is the continued debate over what femininity really is today. I don't think we have clear roles anymore and it makes some women fight for position as you said. No wonder we are all so messed up.
LFL

[LustForLife]

I seemed to bring out the unmanliness in him and he seemed to bring out the take-charge-fella in me.

I see the same dynamic in my M HP.

I want to offer you some encouragement that your H possesses all that he needs to top your top, inside him, all guys do most likely. For that matter, all females possess inside them the ability to let their guys lead them and be a nice little wifey and that is a learning process, too. It is easier, however, to focus on the other person and what they may or may not have and that conveniently gets us off the hook, eh! IOW, he can't top your top until you learn how to be a better bottom.

Thanks for that HP. It is so true but hard for me to embrace. I do have to "let go" more. I think I will automatically become a better "bottom" if I do. I guess I fear that it won't make him a better "top" so I keep pluggin away and pushing when I should just be detaching somewhat. I need to think about that one some more.
LFL

[LustForLife]

LFL- I wanted to emphasize that although my last post sounded negative, I do think there is hope in your sich that both you and your H could expand your "skill sets" and communication to the extent that your sex life could become more mutually satisfactory. Obviously, based on my last post on my own thread, my 2bx's issues were something beyond simple lack of confidence or drive. The reason "my" sexual "skills" never worked with my 2bx had a lot to do with the fact that they were "my" sexual "skills". That is why when I would, for example, make real attempts to increase my physical attractiveness they would often fail. The cute hip-hop outfit that got me validation from strangers got me insults from my 2bx because it was such a strong statement of my individuality.

Thanks MJ.
Seems like most people agree H and I have a great shot at figuring this stuff out. That feels good. And I know we are a perfect match in so many other ways that it is worth all the effort and stress trying to come up with a workable solution. It's already getting better so at least we are going in the right direction.

LFL

[LustForLife]

I was thinking some more about my H's sexual history. Now that I think about it in this context, he has always been with girls/women who were very sexually assertive. He lost his virginity at 16 to a girl on a high school camping trip. He must have done something right, lol, because I remember this girl Still calling our apartment YEARS later. We were living together and maybe even engaged at that point (young 20's) and she would call right up and say "Can I speak to ___?" and like a goofball I'd pass to phone over to him. We had it out good after one incident and the next time she called he was very very direct and said "Stop calling me. We have nothing to talk about. I'm engaged" and that was that. I was quite proud of him at that time. Felt good that he was going to take a stand. He is quite capable of doing this but he HATES confrontation, so avoids. But when it comes down to it, he gets his act together.
So anyways, just sharing. His Need I guess to be the aggressor has never been tested. Women are attracted to him (obviously) so maybe he doesn't have to work so hard for it? I don't know. It would have been interesting to see what happened if we stayed S. But not so interesting I want to test that out.
LFL

[Heywyre]

LFL - I know what you mean about having a H that doesn't like confrontation. My H is like that too, and on top of that has this thing about "not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings"

Your post reminded me of a sitch just after H and I got together. We were also engaged to be married and he mentioned something about an X *gf* owing him some money. I asked what it was about and he said he had lent her his credit card to buy a washer and dryer after they split up - no biggee. But here we were 2-3 years later and it still wasn't paid off. But he said she was "good for it" and wasn't concerned it would be paid off. I never took it any further until that Christmas when his youngest daughter came to stay for a few days. She went to visit the old gf and stayed overnight at her place. When she came home she told us that all *gf* did was talk about my H and she even sent him a present. Ok, that was it. I told him something had to be done. She was obviously avoiding paying off the credit in an attempt to keep connected to H (probably in the hopes he would call). He said he didn't want to hurt her feelings and I said it had nothing to do with "feelings" it had to do with what was right. He called her and they chatted for a few minutes, very superficial stuff and then I could tell he was uncomfortable but he asked about the visa bill, next thing I knew he was talking about us and how happy he was and that he was engaged (so obviously I was right about the connection between her and the unpaid visa bill). The conversation ended shortly thereafter and within a couple of days the visa bill was paid off. Amazing isn't it?

[Crazy Eddie]

Interesting. Would you say that it's only sexually assertive women that were attracted to him, or would you say he's only attracted to sexually assertive women? I guess the women hitting on him at work were all sexually assertive. They'd have to be if they were hitting on him, right? Or maybe you'd say that those women were signalling in a nonassertive way, as a "bottom", and it went right over his head? Since he never tried to be the aggressor, I suppose he'd naturally never become sexual with a sexually nonassertive person.

In my case, a (then well-founded) lack of confidence meant that while I was attracted to all types of girls, I only ever got anywhere with sexually assertive girls (and by "anywhere" I mean kissing), and only a couple of those, and of those only one has ever expressed a desire to have sex with me that I've been able to detect.