Madonna/Whore Complex Part 4

[Heywyre]

Yes, I feel very positive about the whole experience and H seems to too

H still hasn't said anything about the shower and massage but its only Thursday and he has to work tonight, so no big deal

Today was nice ... he had the day off and we spent it wandering around, did a little shopping, went for lunch, did some work in the garden etc. H even commented on "how nice this is"

He works tonight but then its the weekend and it looks like we are finally going to get our jeep (after being in the shop for over two months) so hopefully we will get to take it out one of the two days because then I start a new contract position on Monday so time will be limited

[Heywyre]

Just journalling a little more about the ST appt.

ST asked H about one of his past relationships wherein they had a child that had down's syndrome. He also had a hole in his heart (apparently quite common for those children). Needless to say it caused a lot of stress, hurt and pain in the R as he spent more time in hospital than out, going through many operations. She left, with the child, when he was 1½. ST asked H how he felt about that. H said there was nothing he could do about it, it was life. ST pressed on, saying that wasn't what he asked. H said he was sad but such is life. He died at the age of 3 and H expressed deep sadness and emotion about going to the funeral and seeing him there, in a little coffin (his X insisting there be an open casket - sick in my POV but each to their own)

At first, H seemed fine talking about it but then the ST pressed him more about his emotions over it and how he was trying to intellectualize the situation, as opposed to actually allowing himself to feel the emotion of it. H refused to allow his emotions to take over.

Then the ST changed the subject and gave him a scenario about him (the ST) taking H's car and trashing it - then asked how H would feel about that. H said "nothing I could do about it". ST said "that's not what I asked you, how would you feel about me doing that and what would you feel like doing to me". H said "he would be angry and feel like doing a lot of things but never would". Once again, ST said, "that's not what I asked, tell me about what you would FEEL like doing to me". H said "I would feel like coming face to face with you somewhere in a dark alley and you wouldn't be walking out of there."

That's when ST went in for the kill - he said "so you can express anger over your car being stolen, but you say "there's nothing that can be done" about the pain, sorrow and grief over the loss of your child. I can't imagine how painful it must be to lose a child and yet you push it down and don't allow yourself to grieve."

I started to cry just at the thought of it, H became very quiet and then I realized, he was crying too.

Oh, yes, we also have to do an exercise that the ST says is a VERY effective tool in healing the inner child (that all of us have)

We are to find a picture of ourselves when we were children. It must be a picture of only us (which might be difficult for me as there were not only a lack of pictures taken around our house but if there were, it was always during holidays of some sort and usually including the whole gang)

Once we have that picture, we must have some quiet time alone, away from noise, other people, phones etc. and imagine times in the past when that child was hurt, punished etc. and then nurture that child, tell them it will be ok, do the things to comfort that child that WE as children never got. I have heard about it before but never participated in it so it should be interesting to see how it unfolds. Now I just have to find a picture of just me - lol

[SouthernGirl]

Wow, Heywyre, you h lost a child? That's just so sad. I've always thought a life that has gone through a Great Grief will never be the same. Loss of a child is certainly way up there. Many men will deal by suppressing it, and it'll eat them up from inside.

Your ST sounds like a find, btw. Good job.

[Heywyre]

Yes, we are totally impressed with him just after one session and he seems to be able to dig and bring out stuff in H that I could never imagine, especially in such a short time. H says he feels comfortable around him - which is GREAT

Yes, it was a very sad time for my H as he lived up north and they had to travel numerous times to a larger centre for treatment for his son. All this time, H knowing it was probably all for not because the hole in his heart was in the lower chamber and the doctors told them they couldn't operate until he was at least 3-4 years old. In the meantime, his lungs kept filling up with blood and making it very difficult for him to breath. Being he was a down's syndrome child, it was also very difficult to comfort him and/or explain to him what was happening.

I truly believe a lot of the problems my H has, and his "attraction" to helping (in particular young children) is due to his loss and to his perception of having "abandoned" his children from his first marriage. He's carried a very heavy burden for a long, long time but hopefully we can shed some it in the next little while

[Heywyre]

Oh, and just for the record people ...

ST said that when a R breaks up and there are children involved, you need "at least two years to grieve and heal" and you shouldn't even consider dating until that time frame is over with. If you do, you take a HUGE risk in carrying over a lot of the baggage into the new R and most likely will chose someone not much better than the past partner.

[Greeneyedlass]

Heywyre,

While my H didn't lose a child to death, he has lost a child in a round about way...so our H's have another similarity. Like I said my H didn't lose his daughter to death, but his 1st W and her family due to their money and connections managed to cut him out of her life completely...they demonized him to her, they told her many, many lies about him and as a result she wants nothing to do with him. Right now he has a 25 year old daughter and a 5 year old granddaughter, but they are in no way a part of his life. I can imagine that there are many things in my H's past where it would be helpful for him to apply that ST's technique with healing the inner child. I can absolutely see how it would be helpful.

I know that there are MANY things my H has never let himself grieve or heal over, you can hear it in his voice when things are brought up...he's made stuffing/hiding/avoiding your feelings an artform! Especially if they are of the painful variety.

[Heywyre]

My H is a master at avoiding emotions too. But I think those days are over and he is going to be pressed hard by this guy. His response to most things is usually "what am I supposed to do, be a blubbering idiot".

After the session on Friday we were talking about the funeral of his son (which was a good thing because I believe he still needed to get some of that emotion out of him left over from the session) and he was saying how his X was "almost hysterical".

Now, as much as I don't believe there should have been an open casket, that just makes things all the more difficult, especially with a child, I said to him "but that was his mother, she needed to grieve in her own way, whether you understand that or not". He said "I guess so" - which is more than he has ever said before when we've talked about it. He usually brushed it off and referred to her "making a scene". Now I know most of that emotion is directed at her, for taking his son away from him and the relationship breaking down, and not at all about her "making a scene" - which, once again, is his way of avoiding. Just point to something else as the problem and avoid the elephant that's standing on your toe, yup, that's him to a "T"

So last night I went searching for pictures of myself and found several actually. I haven't decided which one to choose but I will today. However, last night when I went to bed after H left for work, I thought about the pictures and some of the things in my life that happened when I was a kid and I started crying. I thought about one of the pictures and how sad and sorry I felt for that little child. I told her it was ok and I wouldn't let anyone hurt her. I cried for a few minutes but then I felt really good afterwards. It was the weirdest feeling.

[OG_Lou]

I thought about one of the pictures and how sad and sorry I felt for that little child. I told her it was ok and I wouldn't let anyone hurt her.

Heywyre. Someone in one of my sociology class ( ~changing Your Life's Direction~) brought up the idea of finding an individual picture from childhood and doing, thinking what would be best for that child (me) in the picture.

I lived with an older brother or my parents, depending which location was less chaotic. No one had much money, so buying school pictures was a rarity. I have one picture of myself when I was in the 6th. or 7th. grade.

I get it out some times when I feel like is one step forward and two steps back. I mentally tell the kid in the picture what sounds like fun and also frequently assure myself that I made it this far and things have worked out to get me/us to this point in time.

When I first heard of using a childhood picture and being its big brother, if you can call it that, I discounted the idea. It sounded childish.

Now, I endorse the childhood picture idea. Especially if you look at the whole situation over time, the kid in the picture (then) and where you are now. Look at the progress you (the then and now person) two have made.

Lou

[Heywyre]

Absolutely Lou

I have heard of this type of therapy a lot before but also looked at it as an acedemic's way of analyzing and, yes, childish. But, amazingly enough I felt comforted.

ST told us to assume the role of the parent with the child because that will comfort the child more, it will give that inner child the love and attention it didn't get. I am not saying personal validation is not good, it is, but what we all crave the most is what we lacked from our primary caregivers, our parents, and this is what we need to nurture.

I grew up in a VERY disfunctional family - poor, too many kids, welfare, father in and out of hospital, mother an only child who married at the age of 17 and didn't have a clue etc. etc. etc.

I know they did the best they could with what they had, but that doesn't deny the fact I didn't get the love I needed as a child. I don't EVER remember my mother putting her arms around me, comforting me and telling me everything would be okay. Children need that, they need to know they are protected and their parents will save them from the cruel, cruel world that they perceive it to be sometimes.

When the ST asked me about my childhood I said - "they did the best they could" and he said, "that's not what I asked, you are rationalizing the situation and justifying THEIR actions - how did YOU FEEL at the time" and I have to admit, I choked back the tears and all the emotions of an 8-year old came to the surface and I felt VERY hurt, lonely and unloved. Was it their fault? Of course not, but that still doesn't "fix" the broken child inside does it?

I think we all have that inner child that needs healing - I plan to give mine what she didn't get for many, many years.

[COG]

Hey this inner child thing is very interesting. I know there's a picture of me at about ten years old that comes to mind, buck teeth, baseball cap, white t-shirt, converse tennis shoes, blue jean cuffs rolled up. I was the sixth child, right behind twin boys. I had a real good childhood, grew up on a farm. Mostly wore hand me downs but that did'nt bother me. But I think I grew up fiercely independent. Always had trouble getting close to people.

I'm a bit of a loner, I can spend a lot of time alone and it does'nt bother me, I actually enjoy it. Sometimes I wonder if I laid in the crib, or in a playpen alone alot. Seems logical as my mother would have been very busy with the rest of the family. They always said I was one of the easiest babies. I probably just laid there quiet, thinking about life as a 6 month old. Dad did'nt help out much around the house. In fact he was high pressure so when he came home, I usually tried to find somewhere else to go. That was easy to do living on a farm.

Anyway did'nt mean to hijack but it's an interesting topic.

THanks,

COG