Afterall..... This IS my life V

[SouthernGirl]

Well, I'll miss you, Cobra. You often have an angle that no one else thought of. So thanks.

[Corri]

Cobra:

Don't let my b!tchyness get to you, guy. You are made of sterner stuff than that. I tried to give up and you kept asking me to give you an example of where you continue to push. So I turned Beotch. I'm good at it, when I want to be.

Cobra, you have valuable insight. But you push, sometimes too much. Most times, that is an assest in life. Sometimes... it is just better to walk away.

I'm sorry for being such a beotch. Really. I truly am. I gave you no other option than silence. I did it on purpose, and I knew I was doing it. That's not fair, but sometimes when thurst up against a wall, I'm not interested in fair.

But... then again, maybe you see where that got us, and hopefully, both you and I can learn from it.

Heather... learn from this. It does not always work for you to 'win.' I gave Cobra no out. None. You never want to give a man 'no out.' They just shut up at that point, and then you are done.

Mojo talks about her 'cow' all the time. The 'cow' gets in the way, sometimes. She nurtures. She takes care. And in so doing, her monkey and her bunny and her lionness suffer. But you don't want to pull out the lionness to save the cow. For if pushed, the lionness will destroy in favor of survival. She can even kill a snake when pushed.

Corri

[Cobra]

Corri,

I’m not upset with you, never really was. But I can’t just let this statement go unaddressed:

I tried to give up and you kept asking me to give you an example of where you continue to push. So I turned Beotch. I'm good at it, when I want to be.

I thought giving up, like not fighting, or not getting angry, deciding to be happy, or whatever you as a person decides to do, is solely up to you and not someone else? You sound a little like Heather when she says she can’t drop the power plays because her H won’t drop the power plays. You couldn’t give up because I wouldn’t give up? Pleeeeze! And that’s your excuse to turn beotch? Try running that one past your therapist and see how far it flies.

As for my pushing my point, well I know that I so at times. But I also know that on those occasions when I have pushed, I did clearly see a major issue and if that issue were to ever be resolved, the path would have to pass through that particular doorway I was seeing. There is no other way. Perhaps the person was not ready to confront that fact or thought there was a side door that could address the problem, or at least put a bandage over it, but that is all it was – a bandage.

In fact, the harder someone pushes back, I see it as more confirmation that the idea is true (though some people will “push back” by shutting down or running). Everyone here could do well to learn that one lesson – if a person becomes reactive to a statement, then dig into that statement because something is festering there. You may not know what it is. It may turn out to be something completely unexpected, but that issue will worm its way back to affect the relationship, one way or another. I believe this is true of everyone on this board, and I mean EVERYONE. So how much push is too much push?

[SouthernGirl]

Corri,

I’m not upset with you, never really was. But I can’t just let this statement go unaddressed:

I tried to give up and you kept asking me to give you an example of where you continue to push. So I turned Beotch. I'm good at it, when I want to be.

I thought giving up, like not fighting, or not getting angry, deciding to be happy, or whatever you as a person decides to do, is solely up to you and not someone else? You sound a little like Heather when she says she can’t drop the power plays because her H won’t drop the power plays. You couldn’t give up because I wouldn’t give up? Pleeeeze! And that’s your excuse to turn beotch? Try running that one past your therapist and see how far it flies.

As for my pushing my point, well I know that I so at times. But I also know that on those occasions when I have pushed, I did clearly see a major issue and if that issue were to ever be resolved, the path would have to pass through that particular doorway I was seeing. There is no other way. Perhaps the person was not ready to confront that fact or thought there was a side door that could address the problem, or at least put a bandage over it, but that is all it was – a bandage.

In fact, the harder someone pushes back, I see it as more confirmation that the idea is true (though some people will “push back” by shutting down or running). Everyone here could do well to learn that one lesson – if a person becomes reactive to a statement, then dig into that statement because something is festering there. You may not know what it is. It may turn out to be something completely unexpected, but that issue will worm its way back to affect the relationship, one way or another. I believe this is true of everyone on this board, and I mean EVERYONE. So how much push is too much push?

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. I tend to "push" too. But I tend to push once, or twice, and if the person I'm pushing seems to resist or disagree I stop. First of all, because I may be right, but the "time" for him or her to walk through that particular door way I so clearly see is less than optimal. They may simply not be ready. Some things need to go around and around in circles for years before the person says "I want to do something else now". I pushed Cemar probably as had as I've pushed anyone, but only as long as he kept responding. Now that his thread is locked and he doesn't seem to want to start a new one I'm quite happy to agree with Corri that apparently he does need to keep hitting his headache against a wall.

The other reason I stop after a push or three is that I may be wrong. It has happened.

[heatherg]

Cobra, I am so reactive to you at times because I often see in you some of the same traits I see in my H. That alone is enough to get me going
What I often feel is that you are not interested in knowing me, in hearing me, in understanding me. You are interested in proving a point, being right. And all of your comments are based around proving that point and because you want to be right, you will keep pressing. You don't listen to what people are saying to you, you assume that people deflect, deny and defend their faults. You don't trust. Maybe that's the bottom line. This is very much how my H is. Honestly. Do you ever hear what someone says and accept it for what it is-their truth?

With that being said, I still value your input.

[Greeneyedlass]

Cobra,

I hope you mean this applies to you as well

In fact, the harder someone pushes back, I see it as more confirmation that the idea is true (though some people will “push back” by shutting down or running). Everyone here could do well to learn that one lesson – if a person becomes reactive to a statement, then dig into that statement because something is festering there.

YOU resist someone digging too, as hard as anyone else here and you certainly don't appreciate it when someone continues to dig, when you flat out state that don't think it's an issue.

I also want to make one other comment about something you said...

But I also know that on those occasions when I have pushed, I did clearly see a major issue and if that issue were to ever be resolved, the path would have to pass through that particular doorway I was seeing. There is no other way.

When I read this it comes across to me as "my way is the only right way." Now I know that's not precisely what you said in the words you use, but that is how it comes across...to me. You have valuable insights many times, but you DO push way too hard at times. It's just my personal opinion but sometimes I believe people pushed back at you because they felt that either you were off track or they felt attacked in your approach. Lets face it, you aren't the most tactful person at times...and I'm sure many times that doesn't bother you, you aren't concerned with tiptoeing around someone's feelings...but that can often lead to someone feeling attacked and defensive, and that alone can make them push back when they wouldn't with a different approach.

Ok...I said what I wanted to, and that's all I'll say about it. It's my perspective, not debating it. I wish you well.

GEL

[chromosphere]

My C and I have started assertiveness training. We are starting with conversation tactics. He breaks it down into different types of statements to make when having a conversation. One of the most basic techniques is to respond to a person's statement by reiterating what they said in a concise way (i.e. "So you feel that ..."). Other techniques are to state your POV without any direct reference to the other person's POV. It is just the way you feel about the situation, not specifically a reaction to the other person's POV. Using these techniques makes the other person feel as if you are listening to them, and that you are not attacking their POV. Granted, the other person may get defensive anyway, but then it is truly their problem.

I'm sure this is pretty basic stuff for some of you, but it is new to me and I am trying to practice it as much as possible. There are more levels and tactics, but I'm trying to master those two first. It seems to work pretty well.

Regards
Chrome

[Heywyre]

It is one of the most basic and productive ways of communicating with your partner Chrome. MC use it all the time and its so productive because it allows one person to truly understand what the other person is saying, without the confrontation - which, as we all know, is so crucial

Good for you, keep it up. It will eventually become second nature and will open up a whole other world of understanding for you

[heatherg]

Get through. Just don't 'get through' too long.

Point taken.

IMO, most spouses go to counseling with the intent of showing the other how wrong the other is and how right s/he is. If your H thinks he can "prove" this to you, then he might go. But you will know it is all projection on his part and you can detach from his attacks. Your H left counseling when he thought the tables were being turned on him. So maybe you just needed a smarter, shrewder counselor.

I see what you are saying. I can ask him. You can't get much smarter or shrewder than my H though....someone who is trying to protect something will sense danger from a mile away kwim? He knows a C would eventually shed the light on him. But I can still ask.

I'm just sort of getting through the days right now. I still just don't feel like giving H the time of day. At work I've been letting his calls go to voicemail and I call back if it's important. Honestly I'm surprised he is still calling me. As I predicted he no longer tousles my hair or tells me goodnight. I'm ok with it.

I just don't see where the R can move forward right now. But I'll try to stay the middle ground and do no harm so that we at least don't go farther backwards.

[heatherg]

I suggest that you start with some professional individual counseling. That is intended to help you with your boundary setting.

I've seen three counselors since I confessed my indiscretion. None of them have been as helpful as you guys. I honestly think you can help me more than a C at this point.

I suggest that you stop all threats and take actions instead. Stop pretending that his actions are acceptable. They are not. It is time that you turned off your giver, and turn on your taker....lets talk about this and see what kind of solid plan we can help you with.

I'd love to develop a plan. Something I can hang my hat on when I'm having a rough day. I know you are busy with Choc and he needs you right now, but when you come back around this way, I'd appreciate any ideas. You are methodical, analytical and intuitive and it is so helpful to people in times of crisis.

Even if you live in a fifty/fifty state, then it would still behoove you to at least retain legal counsel so that you know your options and rights, for your children's sakes.

Since I have filed for D twice, I'm pretty familiar with my options