Corri He doesn't want to piss me off... or get it wrong... or do something stupid.
Cac4 anyway, for as long as I can remember: "Aggressive" is bad. "Aggressive" is a serious threat to your life, freedom, and property. "Aggressive" = date rape. "Aggressive" will land you in jail. Yeah, dammit, you better ask permission, lest you find yourself in big, big trouble. You don't have to even actually "be" aggressive. Just ask a young dr. named William Smith...or the entire Duke U. lacrosse team. All a young lady has to do is wake up and find herself unhappy with her behavior the night before, and decide she wants to re-write history, and your life is ruined.
I've even seen propaganda films made for male college students that don't just imply, but state explicitly: "you must ask p e r m i s s i o n". for every step. "May I hold your hand?" "May I kiss you?" "May I touch..." Glad you brought that up.
Some W's think those rules apply to the M.
I don't care how characters like Deida or Dr. Laura define "manliness". I don't think you really want to go back there. Few would get away with the John Wayne act.
Mojo I'm starting to get p*ssed off at the LDW of the world again (which is a shame after I worked so hard to gain compassion and a feeling of sisterhood) because they've messed up all these middle-aged guys they spent time married to. It is a problem Jenny. I am looking for solutions to my situation. I know the "Lifetime Network, the co-dependency and other politically correct movement got men and women to where they are today.
the difference between "good" and "bad" is defined by your (the woman's) whim. there is no way to predict what thats going to be. What you are describing may be attainable within the bounds of a long-term relationship; but not on a date. no way, no how. It takes some time to achieve that level of trust. But even then, the woman still holds all the cards in our culture.
You can "say" that today you want to be all "Susan B Anthony", but tomorrow you want me to be all "john Wayne" if you like. But if tomorrow comes, and I'm being all John Wayne, and you change your mind...yet I persist...I'm going to f*&#ing jail, and that's all there is to it. Married or not.
I do see the "good girl/freak" issue, though, and the problem is rooted in the same place. the "good girl" programming permeates our neanderthal subconcious, which is incapable of reasoning and sorting out the subleties of when and where its ok to let "freak" come out. It never is (according to the subC). its just bad. Well, now you've got "good boy" programming, too, as defined by the feminist movement, which is equally as difficult to overcome. For some, its just "aggression" that is thwarted, but I'm sure for others, its being sexual at all...like the M/W syndrome we keep hearing so much about. That certainly has its tentacles firmly implanted in the subconscious and its inability to reason. but anyway...again, the difference between good-girl/freak and bad-boy/aggressive he-man is that when one is released in the wrong place, you get at worst, a bad reputation. But when the other is released, you go to jail.
Just the way you write that post, particularly mentioning going to jail several times, shows how warped men's minds have become. No offense. I just don't know what to say about that. How can I argue that belief? My H may hold the same one, probably does. Can't even act it out when I WANT him too, because maybe I'll turn all psycho and report him?! Oy Vey. LFL
He probably doesn't suspect you of harboring a secret plot to do that, but it may be that he internalized it as "the right way to treat a woman" to keep her from being unhappy.
While he's not worried about going to jail, he is worried about making you unhappy. If he can let go of fear and go from thinking about how not to make you unhappy to thinking about how to make you happy (two very different goals and mindsets), he'll end up where you and him both want him to go. You can't push yourself or anyone else toward a goal with fear, you can only push away from a pitfall with fear... going toward a goal requires positive desire for gain to dominate one's thinking.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
It sounds like most men are NOT going to let go of that fear. I'm sure many of the men on this board, if not most, believe everything cac and others have written. I'm positive Lou does. He said as much. It sort of goes back to what Mojo was saying, LDW are F-ing up my sex life! How are HDW supposed to get their needs met when men have been conditioned by society and the LDW around them to "behave" themselves. And to top it all off, the HDW are looked at as "freaks" or whatever insulting term you want to use. The fact remains, HDW are NOT accepted in society and often within their very own M's. A woman who has a higher sex drive than a man is just not normal. I think even the Alpha males are not going to fully appreciate the HDW because she is somewhat of a threat to his masculinity. Maybe...just thinking and typing. LFL
LDW are not ruining your sex life. LDW are not responsible for HDW not being accepted in society either. This issue you're discussing here is much bigger than that. I would say it's the result of our Puritanistic society, of which LDW and HDW are both "victims." I get pissed off whenever I see women polarizing over issues, whether it's sex or breast feeding or the SAHM/WOHM controversy. Why do we do this?
It sounds like most men are NOT going to let go of that fear. I'm sure many of the men on this board, if not most, believe everything cac and others have written. I'm positive Lou does. He said as much.
as well they should...cuz its a fact.
Originally Posted By: Crazy Eddie
He probably doesn't suspect you of harboring a secret plot to do that, but it may be that he internalized it as "the right way to treat a woman" to keep her from being unhappy.
exactly. at least, within the bounds of a LTR. on a "date", with a stranger? (which is what MJ was talking about originally)...not so much.
But anyway, that's what I mean about the subconscious mind. It takes complex concepts and pares them down to their core message. "oject x =bad". "behavior y = bad". like Frankenstein's monster: "FIRE...B A D!!!! RUNNNN!!!!!!". In this particular case, the more complex PC notions of late 20th century sexual relations are pared down and saved in the subC as Crazy Eddie says. "women don't like that". or "agressive=BAD!!".
Relax MrsCac. It was just a joke. I'm quite aware of the "puritanical" angle. I am part of that society too you know, but I don't see myself as a "victim." And THAT is part of the problem too. Lots of women get "pissed off" at other women for speaking their own dammmm minds. Why can't we have different views on these issues? I'm not ashamed to discuss it. You mentioned breast feeding, I had no interest. Didn't do it. Guess that makes me a bad mom. Women love to yell at me for that one too. Whatever. My mom raised six kids on formula and we seem no worse for wear. I did the same. I guess the real issue is why do women get insulted/defensive when I make these statements, whether it's about motherhood, sexuality, HD vs LD, whatever? LFL
LFL wrote:"I think even the Alpha males are not going to fully appreciate the HDW because she is somewhat of a threat to his masculinity. "
I am curious as to your reasoning on this one.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
LFL wrote:"I think even the Alpha males are not going to fully appreciate the HDW because she is somewhat of a threat to his masculinity. "
I am curious as to your reasoning on this one.
-NOPkins-
I'd like to volunteer to be a test case. Would someone please talk my W into the study? (purely for scientific purposes and the betterment of mankind, of course). Come on W, please threaten my masculinity with your over developed sex drive...
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
