LFL'S Next Thread

[MJontheMend]

If Mojo doesn't care to provide a "cliff-notes version to Mojo speak" then that's cool too. Mojo?

Mostly I'm trying to be funny and just riffing on a theme. I did one big post a long time ago which explained my whole animal thing. I never go back and read my own posts and really I wish they would just disappear the next day. But here goes.

Cow- Adult maternal femininity/sexuality. Breasts filled with milk. Mercy or generous sexuality. Attracted to boyish traits in men.
Lioness- Adult assertive femininity/sexuality. Vaginal muscles. Assertive initiative sexually, top energy. Object oriented attraction to men. (Object oriented attraction is visual attraction to specific physical traits such as "cute *ss")
Monkey- Girlish reactive femininity/sexuality. Clitoris and other nerve endings. Teasing, flirtatious bottom energy. Attracted to assertive, dominant, forceful masculine energy.
Bunny- Girlish soft responsive feminity/sexuality. Pretty physical features. Gentle, desire to be petted/cuddled "made love to" bottom. Attracted to strong nurturing paternal tendencies in men.

I never really made up any definitions for the male animals but I'm using the Puppy Dog to represent the male version of the bunny and the Wolf to represent the male that the monkey wants and the Bear to represent the male that the bunny wants in the post I made to LFL.

Actually, I was thinking about this them in reference to the following song which my D16 burned on a CD for me.

"Pink Triangle"

When I'm stable long enough
I start to look around for love
See a sweet in floral prints
My mind begins the arrangements
But when I start to feel that pull
Turns out I just pulled myself
She would never go with me
Were I the last girl on earth

I'm dumb, she's a lesbian
I thought I had found the one
We were good as married in my mind
But married in my mind's no good
Pink triangle on her sleeve
Let me know the truth
Let me know the truth

Might have smoked a few in my time
But never thought it was a crime
Knew the day would surely come
When I'd chill and settle down
When I think I've found a good old-fashioned girl
Then she put me in my place
If everyone's a little queer
Can't she be a little straight?

The guy singing the song is indicating that when he is in a stable Alpha Bear mode he starts looking for a Bunny (sweet in floral prints)(good old-fashioned girl)to love. Unfortunately, in this case he mistook a lesbian for a Bunny. My interpretation of the lines beginning with "Might have smoked a few" would be that he spent some time getting his ya-yas out playing Wolf to Monkey but always with a plan to eventually settle down Bear to Bunny. However, life has dealt him a cruel blow because the Bunny he desires is looking for a Lioness with same sex object orientation.

[fearless]

I decided to just go top with him because...well, I was really horny, lol, and I was in no mood for "nice" sex.
So I literally jumped on top of H while he was reading in bed and threw his book across the room.
The best part was that he proceeded to "flip" me is about 5 seconds and do some very perverted things to me.
I think my approach made him more aggressive himself so that was a win-win....
What came over him I'm not sure but I was rollin' with it.
We were both quite proud of our "performance" last night. It was nice just to be in the total same mindframe for once. Hooray for us!


"What came over him" was YOU!!

LFL,
Amazing, huh? YOU put out the vibe you were feeling and your H reacted to it. Does it make you wonder how much your H really can pick up from you??

I have been thinking about some of the things you have been writing. Here are the things that have stuck with me in your writings:

But I like a man to take charge. Hold me down, tug on my hair from behind, not to the point of pain, just clear restraint. H calls it "rape." I looked at him like he was nuts of course and said if it is something I WANT, it is hardly rape. He still disagrees and refuses to even go there.

Why can't I feel as much desire for my H as I do when I think of that OM grabbing my arm as I walk past him in the family room, throwing me over the side of the couch, and having his way with me, without saying a dammm word. That's not what a modern educated woman should like, right?

Although when it comes right down to it, I think it is all about me being able to express myself sexually without feeling ashamed/wrong/dirty/whatever….All I know is my sexuality is suppressed with H. That is the crux of the problem.

Okay a few comments and questions: you say you feel ashamed/wrong/dirty/whatever about expressing yourself sexually. Does your H "make" you feel that way? If so, what does he do to make you feel that way? Could you let him know that he "makes" you feel ashamed/whatever when he does or says certain things? He may have no idea that certain reactions/actions of his "cause" you to feel ashamed. If he does not make you feel that way, what in your background would "make" you feel that?

Also is it possible that you like the take charge style because it deflects away from your perceived feeling of shame/whatever because now the man now "owns" the responsibility for the dirty/wrong/whatever sexual activity?

I was talking to a friend about your situation. (Mostly I am seeing how everyone's situations here relate to my own life or others around me) Anyway, I told her that I wondered if you had ever explored WHY you want the take charge/ restraint/etc. type of behavior. My point being that if you knew WHAT feeling was underneath the restraint that excited you, then you could share THAT information with your husband and let HIM figure out how to get that feeling for you in his own way. I have NO idea why you want this but let's guess that maybe it makes you feel incredibly desired as if your H MUST have you this minute. So you could explain to you H that you want to feel intensely desired by him and who knows, he could come up with something better than you can even imagine. Or maybe as I guessed right earlier, if your H takes more charge then you feel more "womanly" and unashamed. If you tell him you want more aggression from him in order to feel more womanly and unashamed about sex, he might be much more inclined because he would be "CARING" and showing love for you by by taking charge. These are just guesses and I am sure there are many other possibilities.

I am just trying to take the focus off of the fact that you want him to do a, b or c and instead think about the fact that you want to FEEL x, y, or z when you are with him and let him know how you want to FEEL. Like I said he may think of things that are even better than you have thought of

Just some thoughts I have had about your sitch. Since you and your H definitely like, respect and love each other, it is hard for me to believe that everything else cannot be figured out!! I am an eternal optimist beneath my realism and occasional pessimistic thoughts!

[LustForLife]

Thanks for that thought-provoking feedback Fearless.

Okay a few comments and questions: you say you feel ashamed/wrong/dirty/whatever about expressing yourself sexually. Does your H "make" you feel that way? If so, what does he do to make you feel that way? Could you let him know that he "makes" you feel ashamed/whatever when he does or says certain things? He may have no idea that certain reactions/actions of his "cause" you to feel ashamed. If he does not make you feel that way, what in your background would "make" you feel that?

Let me correct you and say I don't feel ashamed/wrong/dirty about my sexuality. I have sensed my H thinks that way though. But he has come a long way in reducing his inhibitions. We have made pretty good progress considering where we used to be. I don't think he realizes that he comes off so inhibited at times. To him, it is just "normal" sexuality. To me, it seems "inhibited." Just depends on perspective I guess. Neither one of us had parents/families that discussed sexuality at all but we still turned out very different in that aspect.

Also is it possible that you like the take charge style because it deflects away from your perceived feeling of shame/whatever because now the man now "owns" the responsibility for the dirty/wrong/whatever sexual activity?

No, I don't think that is it. But I do think it is kind of "odd." Even the om who acted most of this out with me commented once that he didn't know any women who really liked it that much. He seemed to enjoy it too but he probably thought I was a little freaky or something. Who knows. I'm just speculating.

My point being that if you knew WHAT feeling was underneath the restraint that excited you, then you could share THAT information with your husband and let HIM figure out how to get that feeling for you in his own way. I have NO idea why you want this but let's guess that maybe it makes you feel incredibly desired as if your H MUST have you this minute.

It probably does have a lot to do with feeling desired. I know that is what was lacking in my M with my H so I'm sure I sought that out when I was S. And the aggressiveness was an obvious way to "see" that without having to get to the emotional/verbal "I love you", "I want you" stuff. Actions spoke louder than words I guess.
But like I said, H and I are getting better at the Actions and not just the Words. So that is progress. I know these are my own issues to deal with, especially my desire to have that level of sexual assertiveness that may not always be possible in a M that is going on 12 years and many bumps in the road.
We shall see how it goes.
LFL

[fearless]

Thanks for that thought-provoking feedback Fearless.

Yeah I am much better at provoking thought than giving answers (Although I do enjoy math and science problems where I can get "right" answers!!)

Let me correct you and say I don't feel ashamed/wrong/dirty about my sexuality.

I don't mind being corrected but I did take that verbatim from a post by you to Mojo on Crazy Eddie's thread "Question for HD women".

LFL - Although when it comes right down to it, I think it is all about me being able to express myself sexually without feeling ashamed/wrong/dirty/whatever

I have sensed my H thinks that way though. But he has come a long way in reducing his inhibitions.

So you meant your H feels ashamed/wrong /dirty about HIS sexuality??? or do you know or think he feels ashamed/wrong/dirty about YOUR sexuality??

It probably does have a lot to do with feeling desired. I know that is what was lacking in my M with my H so I'm sure I sought that out when I was S.

Sooooo have you told your H how much you want to feel wanted and desired by him???

For some reason I picture him looking at you surprised and saying "But I do desire you!!!??!!" And he also seems like the kind of man who might be up to the challenge of proving to you how much he desires you!!

[LustForLife]

So you meant your H feels ashamed/wrong /dirty about HIS sexuality??? or do you know or think he feels ashamed/wrong/dirty about YOUR sexuality??

A little of both I think. But he says it is HIS sexuality that is more inhibited and that it is something he is just not comfortable expressing. He realizes this and is making an effort to change it. He has never outright commented on my own sexuality. He says I am sexy, desirable, hot, etc. But the way he SHOWS it is not what I consider consistent with his words. This is a work in progress.

Sooooo have you told your H how much you want to feel wanted and desired by him???

Well of course. But it is hard to MAKE someone desire you in the way that YOU want them to. They have their own sexuality, their own comfort level, etc. We are a little mismatched when it comes to sexual expression but it is not something that can't be improved.

For some reason I picture him looking at you surprised and saying "But I do desire you!!!??!!" And he also seems like the kind of man who might be up to the challenge of proving to you how much he desires you!!

True on both counts.

LFL

[Corri]

LFL:

I don't know if this will help you or not.

We all know I started out as an LD on this board. Way so. I seem to have come a long way, and quite honeslty, I'm not sure that I was ever LD, but given my circumstances, just reacted that way.

I like sex. I like it a lot.

But my boyfriend... given his history... is not one to initiate. I have to start it. Always. For some time now, that has been a wonderful thing for me. But now... it grows weary. I want him to 'top my top.' I'm, after all, a very TOP female.

But he won't.

If I do not pick up on my BFs subtle clues... nothing goes anywhere. I'd like him to be more assertive. But he is not.

After a time, this is going to be a problem for us. I've faced my sexual issues... but I don't think he is willing to face HIS sexual issues.

But what he did for me... was be very patient. And I try to give that back to him. I bring it up. "You seemed to be uncomfortable when xyz happened..." I bring it to his attention immediately. I have to ask for what I want. To show him what I like. In blunt terms,... I have to instruct him to be... what he used to be... an agressive male. He worries. He doesn't want to piss me off... or get it wrong... or do something stupid.

Unfortunately, for a time... you are going to have to be the agressor and the teacher. The instructor. And you are going to get EXACTLY what you ask for. Which is not a turn on. You want... creativity, too. But he has to learn it. He has to find safety in it. And that is going to take some time. That is why I was encouraging you to the tantric sex class. He can learn from someone other than you... but you are there to give him encouragement.

Dunno.

Corri

[MJontheMend]

I agree with Corri. There is just no way you can be a grown-up in a sexual relationship and not be willing to figure out how to talk about it. You'll never find anyone who will exactly match your drives and desires in every way all the time so really the best you can do is try to find someone who is GGG (Good, Giving and Game) and the only way somebody can be GGG for you is if you let them know exactly what you want them to be game to give that will be good for you.

I don't know why it is so hard to do this but I have to tell you that it is absolutely one of my top personal growth goals at the moment to be able to communicate about sex as openly as possible with any of my future partners. For instance, I consider myself quite lame because this guy I am dating told me that his men's group read "Hot Monogamy" and I didn't take the opportunity to ask him any interesting questions. (The sad truth is I can actually be shy on occasion in real life. Hard to believe, I know.)

Also, after just a brief foray into the dating world, I'm starting to get p*ssed off at the LDW of the world again (which is a shame after I worked so hard to gain compassion and a feeling of sisterhood) because they've messed up all these middle-aged guys they spent time married to. Now I have to go around giving men "permission" to be sexual with me. The LDW are exerting a tyranny of the majority over the online dating world. In an article put out by Match.com about the 10 worst things a guy can do on a first date, the writer mentioned "trying to aggressively get a kiss" as a big turn-off. WTF? No wonder I've been feeling like I've been transported to "Pleasantville" on some of my dates. It's like I have to look down to make sure I'm not actually wearing a pink circle skirt with a poodle embroidered on it.

[Crazy Eddie]

Unfortunately, for a time... you are going to have to be the agressor and the teacher. The instructor. And you are going to get EXACTLY what you ask for. Which is not a turn on.

No, I can see that it's not, now that you put it into words so well. This must by why women are so cryptic when they ask us for things sometimes... they want to be surprised when we fill in the missing pieces, and so they can't tell us what to fill it them in with.

Too bad the guy's not into porn. I got a lot of good ideas from it. There's some goofy ideas in it too (like he interrupts the encounter and then MBs onto her face), but I was able to give her some nice surprises after spending some time downloading naughty videos from the Internet.

Maybe you could revisit the idea with him now that he's loosened up a bit. Just don't freak out on him when he tries out one of the goofy ideas.

You want... creativity, too. But he has to learn it. He has to find safety in it. And that is going to take some time. That is why I was encouraging you to the tantric sex class. He can learn from someone other than you... but you are there to give him encouragement.

Dunno.

Corri

Maybe he could go without her so it would still be a surprise, and he could lead her through it. Might be fun. Unless couples are supposed to practice in-class... I don't think him going without her would work out in that case!

[cac4]

... Also, after just a brief foray into the dating world, I'm starting to get p*ssed off at the LDW of the world again (which is a shame after I worked so hard to gain compassion and a feeling of sisterhood) because they've messed up all these middle-aged guys they spent time married to. Now I have to go around giving men "permission" to be sexual with me. The LDW are exerting a tyranny of the majority over the online dating world. In an article put out by Match.com about the 10 worst things a guy can do on a first date, the writer mentioned "trying to aggressively get a kiss" as a big turn-off. WTF? No wonder I've been feeling like I've been transported to "Pleasantville" on some of my dates. It's like I have to look down to make sure I'm not actually wearing a pink circle skirt with a poodle embroidered on it.

Interesting how this bit of information has eluded you until now. We are the same age, and I can tell you, this is how we've been programmed for the last generation or so. I guess maybe its because this sort of societal programming is typically lost on those who are not the intended target. (men, in this case).
anyway, for as long as I can remember:
"aggressive" is bad.
"aggressive" is a serious threat to your life, freedom, and property.
"aggressive" = date rape.
"aggressive" will land you in jail.
yeah, dammit, you better ask permission, lest you find yourself in big, big trouble.
You don't have to even actually "be" aggressive. Just ask a young dr. named William Smith...or the entire Duke U. lacrosse team. All a young lady has to do is wake up and find herself unhappy with her behavior the night before, and decide she wants to re-write history, and your life is ruined.

I've even seen propaganda films made for male college students that don't just imply, but state explicity: "you must ask p e r m i s s i o n". for every step. "may I hold your hand?" "May I kiss you?" "May I touch..."

That's just the way it is today, ladies. You can't have it both ways.
Personally, I was horrified by yesterday's description of John Wayne literally dragging his wife through the streets. I don't care how characters like Deida or Dr. Laura define "manliness". I don't think you really want to go back there.

[LustForLife]

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

That's just the way it is today, ladies. You can't have it both ways.

I disagree. It is no different than a man saying he wants a "good girl" outside the bedroom and a "freak" inside the bedroom. Women have been been listening to that line forever. Men should be capable of the same thing. My H is a "good guy" most of the time but I don't want him "nice" in the bedroom. Granted, it may be harder for people to switch on and off like that but I think I can do it fairly well. People who know me at work have this idea of me as very prim and proper, lol. They would probably be shocked by some of what I write here, and what I enjoy in me personal life. That's normal I guess but I don't think it has to be one way or the other. I little variety makes things interesting. I want a man who can be good and bad. And when I say "bad", I guess it's technically not bad at all, because I'm really encouraging that behavior. So is it ever really "toppping my top?" No, because I LET him. I know BF hates when I say that.
LFL