Duty, love, and attitude

[Crazy Eddie]

In her defense, this is highly unusual behavior for her these days... I think the physical discomfort associated with the home maintenance issue was getting to her. That and me being worried about the cost and disappointed in having to call set her off.

Hmmm... could be what it really boils down to is that her sensitivity to me is a lot higher than mine is to her, and me worrying or being disappointed silently is just as dramatic and hurtful to her as her pitching a royal fit is to me.

Anyway, once she recovered, I just let it go. I guess I still let her off too easy, but I really didn't know what more I could have done afterwards that would have done any good. Maybe not getting rewarded by any kind of reaction (arguing, retaliating, or apologizing) is enough. On the other hand, I did do what she said, so maybe I did reward her on some level. On the gripping hand, I made it as clear as I could that I was doing it because I had already decided to, not because she ordered me to, and that talking to me that way only delayed the cooperation I was only seconds away from offering of my own free will.

I don't think threatening to spank her while she was in that mood would have done any good at all. Maybe afterward?

[Crazy Eddie]

CE,

You handled that brilliantly! What a stupid childish act on her part to hide the phone when SHE told you to call the repairman.

Yes, and if I hadn't been thinking clearly, I would have pointed that out, and it wouldn't have done any good. Neither argument nor apology nor retaliation does any good at the time. Loving detachment is the only effective way I've found so far.

I have never been able to keep my wits about me when anyone went off on me like that before. I spent much of my life hiding from people because I was so terrified of them going off on me like that. And I wasted a lot of years not doing things that I should have been doing with my life because I was afraid of people catching a mistake or seeing me drop the ball and going off on me like that.

Hell, it took me a few days to get back on this thread because it was so hard for me to force myself to read a bunch of anonymous messages criticizing me over the trainer issue. (Thank y'all for responding anyway... it's valuable data and I need to be able to evaluate it dispassionately and use it!)

Maybe I'll really be okay after all. The love of my life went off on me, I know why she did it, I know how to react to it, and no one came away afterwards feeling hurt or resentful or worthless or impatient or unhappy in any way. Actually, I kind of feel like George McFly did after he knocked out Biff. (Now if I can win an actual fistfight (for the first time ever) I think I'll be unstoppable).

I'll know I'm really onto something when I'm not sure I'm in the right in the apparent issue at hand and I still keep my wits about me and refuse to accept that treatment from someone even when I think they may be in the right! Just because I'm wrong doesn't mean I'm useless, incompetent, or unwanted, or that I deserve anyone treating me that way.

Heck next time she tries a childish stunt like that...spank her and tell her "that's what bad girls get."

You didn't tolerate her uncalled for behavior, and you didn't allow her to dictate to you what you should do...and then berate you for it. Keep this up and she's going to learn she cannot behave this way with you.

Oh, I'm definitely going to keep it up. So many things are falling into place... I haven't felt like this since college, with so many mysterious things suddenly making perfect sense after the prof fills in some missing concepts. These are the lessons that went right over my head in school, the ones that the teachers never got around to mentioning. (I'm still wondering how most of humanity seems to grasp a lot of it without apparent effort. Are they born with some sort of social instinct?)

Yes, she was childish. As you see in a previous post, I may still be making excuses for her because I'm crazy about her. And I suspect she does the same for me to some extent. But it is unusual behavior these days and most of the time she adds immensely to my happiness (she doesn't MAKE me happy, but life is still a lot sweeter most of the time with her around). I'll definitely keep her!

[Greeneyedlass]

Hey I know where you are coming from! I've spent YEARS myself trying not to make the men in my life angry with me, or upset, or disappointed etc, etc, etc. I ALWAYS put their happiness above my own and it got me NOWHERE!

"Lovingly Detached"...I think I'm gonna make myself a t-shirt with that on it! It's one of the best tools in my relationship arsenal, and I think others will say the same thing. There have been plenty of times that my H would react inappropriately to me for something and I'd react very calmly as you did...works every freakin time! I've even (get this) done it with my father, the man who single-handedly instilled many of my fears when it came to men, who would screech at me at the top of his lungs and is now responsible for me cringing inside anytime a man raises his voice to me....I did this with him the last time he shot off at me when I didn't deserve it....AND IT WORKED!!! I nearly had to pick my mother's lower jaw up off the floor LOL. I actually received an apology from my Dad, a very respectful one at that. It was a definite "slaying the dragon" moment for me.

[SouthernGirl]

Maybe I'll really be okay after all. The love of my life went off on me, I know why she did it, I know how to react to it, and no one came away afterwards feeling hurt or resentful or worthless or impatient or unhappy in any way. Actually, I kind of feel like George McFly did after he knocked out Biff. (Now if I can win an actual fistfight (for the first time ever) I think I'll be unstoppable).

I think you did GREAT. Fabulous, even. Way to go. I'm very happy for you.

[Crazy Eddie]

I've even (get this) done it with my father, the man who single-handedly instilled many of my fears when it came to men, who would screech at me at the top of his lungs and is now responsible for me cringing inside anytime a man raises his voice to me....I did this with him the last time he shot off at me when I didn't deserve it....AND IT WORKED!!! I nearly had to pick my mother's lower jaw up off the floor LOL. I actually received an apology from my Dad, a very respectful one at that. It was a definite "slaying the dragon" moment for me.

Cool! Good for you! I guess your dad and H do that a lot less now that they don't get a reaction out of you, right? I'm going to visit my mom in a few weeks and I may have a chance to try it with her. Bound to be better for both of us than the walking on eggshells bit I've been doing for far too long. I remember looking forward to the chance to flip her the bird and tell her to f-off on my 18th birthday... and by that time, I knew it would be silly and childish and I didn't have any idea what else to do and I was still a big ole wuss and I kept up the walking on eggshells around her to this day. (Although at least I had the sense to marry my wife even though my mom detested her for some reason. Oddly enough, for several years now, she's been much closer to my mom than I am.)

Hey, maybe I'll go out on a limb and mention the detective I'm thinking of hiring when I save up some money. That should get me just the chance I'm looking for (Or maybe she'll have a pleasant surprise or two up her sleeve)

I've long been suspicious of the idea of "having it out" or "getting closure" with a parent over old issues; it strikes me as an admission (to that very parent, no less!) that you're incapable of getting over old wounds and grudges and just proves that parent was right about you all along. But I never knew what else to do with her either, other than avoid her as much as I could and "get over it" and "get on with my life". But now I do... I'm just going to be myself and tell her what's going on with me and my family today and deal with her reaction as it comes, because I can do it with my wits intact.

I think you did GREAT. Fabulous, even. Way to go. I'm very happy for you.

Wow, thanks guys! You know I was actually thinking that I'd "messed up" that day and gathering data on how not to mess up again. I now see I've been looking for ways to "swagger" properly so that she'd never go off on me like that, because I still didn't think I could get through it with my wits, my PMA, and the respect of my wife intact. Even in my first post about the incident, one can see that I was upset because I'd lost my proper "rock" attitude and "caused" her to flip out. And a bit resentful: how can she expect me to be an unflappable rock 24/7 and stay unflappable when everything goes to hell and she's watching my inner emotions for any slip-up when she's supposed to be helping me solve a problem?

The answer, of course, is that I can't stay an unflappable rock 24/7, and therefore she's going to flip out sometimes (although perhaps less often after it fails to get a reaction a few times), and it's not the end of the world! It doesn't mean she's lost respect for me and she's going to end up leaving or friendzoning me or turning into my enemy until I can get her out of my hair somehow. It just means she's upset and she needs me to get my head back in the game as quickly as I can. I don't have to be perfect all the time, and she doesn't expect perfection all the time, and she doesn't hate me just because I upset her or let her down every once in a while. I don't have to be afraid of anyone going off on me like that again, because I can keep my wits and defuse it and everything will be fine afterwards. And if someone still won't work with me afterwards, I can be happy without them.

And I'll be able to get a lot more work done if I can stop being afraid of making mistakes and catching hell there as well. And the virtuous cycle continues...

Thanks for all your responses. If it wasn't for the FDA and the medicines I need I'd stop paying that psychiatrist of mine and just hang out here.

[Greeneyedlass]

Cool! Good for you! I guess your dad and H do that a lot less now that they don't get a reaction out of you, right?

Yes, exactly. I've learned that cowering down and retreating into my shell for fear of further reaction from my father has done me no favors over the years, but you know what? I wasn't taught to do anything else either, I was taught to cower down, shut up, and keep my opinion to myself....until the last 10 years. It's only been the last three years or so that I've learned to lovingly detach and stand up for myself that way. My H is NOWHERE near as bad as my father, my H just goes immediately on the defensive. My father has an EXPLOSIVE temper.

There are many things I used to think I would want to confront my father about, but I've decided to let many of the things go. Why? Because after one very long conversation with my father one time I realized, he had no idea he was affecting me the way he was...what he was doing was unintentional. He did the best he could by me, and overall I give the man high scores as a Dad, with just a few failing grades for temper related issues. The only thing I've really ever confronted him about (and I'm glad I did because it was insightful) was about how he treats my mother and I so differently from other people.

When it would come to my mother and I, my dad had no room for our opinions. Basically what we said didn't matter and he would nit-pick at my mother. I always knew my father loved my mother, but I didn't like how he'd bully us basically. As I became an adult it become much more apparant and I had to say something to him about how he would treat us...and particularily how he would speak to my mother. When I finally had the conversation with my dad we were on the phone for TWO HOURS, my father was literally speechless a few times. He honestly had no idea, or at least that's what he said, perhaps it just really hit home to hear me say those things out loud to him.

Ever since though I've learned not to tolerate it when he treats me like that (which sometimes he just slips back into old habits) and I "lovingly detach" and don't take it. It's so worth it for me to do that, not only for me...but to see that look of pride on my mother's face when I don't tolerate it.

[haphazard]

Because you're butt's getting a lot smaller and you don't have much padding if I have to spank you! Excellent line Eddie!

Wow your Mrs is childish - hid the phone - wtf? I would have just raised an eyebrow and said "how old are you?" My H threw a tantrum in Burger King one time because our DD (then 3) wanted him to get a straw for her milk just as he was about to take the first bite out of his burger. Then of course she started bawling because Daddy was being mean to her. I just said "which one of you is 38 and which one is 3?". He looked a bit embarrassed and went to get the straw. Really on the whole he is very grown up for someone just about to turn 40 - but every now and then he seems to knock off a few decades

[Crazy Eddie]

Because you're butt's getting a lot smaller and you don't have much padding if I have to spank you! Excellent line Eddie!

Wow your Mrs is childish - hid the phone - wtf? I would have just raised an eyebrow and said "how old are you?"

Maybe I should try that next time. I doubt anything involving words will have an effect at the time, but I guess it can't hurt.

Could be a while, though... she's usually pretty sweet these days.

My H threw a tantrum in Burger King one time because our DD (then 3) wanted him to get a straw for her milk just as he was about to take the first bite out of his burger. Then of course she started bawling because Daddy was being mean to her. I just said "which one of you is 38 and which one is 3?". He looked a bit embarrassed and went to get the straw. Really on the whole he is very grown up for someone just about to turn 40 - but every now and then he seems to knock off a few decades

Don't we all? The kids still manage to get a small tantrum out of me from time to time, especially when they "gang up" on me. Time for more loving detachment...

[Crazy Eddie]

Time to step back from my particulars for a little while and take a look at the big picture. Thinly veiled allusions included at no charge.

Now people motivated by the chance to enrich themselves or better themselves outproduce the hell out of people motivated by the desire to avoid punishment. If you don't believe me, take a map that includes the mid-Atlantic states, find the Potomac River, and note the complete absence of an international border anywhere in the vicinity. Or read de Tocqueville's Democracy in America, in which he points out the differences in wealth and level of productive activity between the two sides of the Ohio River, one of which was a free state and one of which was a slave state. Read the whole thing, while you're at it... this guy got a better understanding of the United States in two years than many people manage to acquire in a lifetime of living here.

It applies to individuals as well. Fear is a great motivation not to do something, but that doesn't help much if you want to get someone (including yourself) to do something and do it well. Saying to yourself "I will eventually get fired if I don't do my job" may work for the short term, but it's exhausting and paralyzing if you rely on that motivation too long, and you end up doing just enough to get the job "done" to relieve the pressure rather than doing all you can to do it well and make your efforts profitable for yourself and your employer/customer. Saying to yourself "I will eventually get a promotion and/or a better job if I do this job well" works much better in the short and the long term, when you mean it and believe it. Saying to yourself "my spouse will be hurt and eventually dump me if I don't put out" isn't going to get you very far... you can't do that well if you're afraid of anything at the time or if your very motivation is fear. Better to say, embrace, and believe "my spouse will feel loved and cherished and go around with a nice glowing smile if I make love enthusiastically and often" is much better. Saying "I'd better tear myself away from my favorite activities and spend some quality time with the family" is a good way to throw a wet blanket over them... you need to go with "time to have some fun with the family and enjoy life with them".

This doesn't mean you banish fear from your life. But its function is to push you away from pitfalls, not to lead you toward your goal. Pushing away from something works well... pushing toward something doesn't, since the person being pushed can go any number of directions other than the goal. Try it with a couple of magnets... see how much easier it is to pull a magnet to a particular spot with opposite-polarity attractive forces than it is to push it there with same-polarity repulsive forces.

[Crazy Eddie]

(Note to self: get some wall maps and hang them up as reminders)

Now if someone is hiding in their nice cozy shell, it may take a good dose of fear to get them out. But that's only the first step.. If there's no reward waiting for them, the only thing they'll end up doing is looking around for another shell to crawl into, preferably one much farther away from whoever pushed them out of the first one. Cadesmom knows what I'm talking about. She was in her little comfort zone, she got a good dose of fear to get her out of it, and then instead of staying with the fear and trying to avoid divorce with fear as her motivation, she embraced and moved toward the rewards that were waiting for her... the hot sex, love, and companionship that her husband was waiting to give her if only she would accept it and give him back what he wanted in return. She still felt fear, but I would say (speaking as an outside observer, of course) that it didn't dominate her thinking... her main motivation after being pushed out of her shell was the hope of gaining the deep joy, happiness, and pleasure that a good, close, loving sexual relationship will bring.

And she used the same reward to bring him back home... she didn't inflict guilt on him as a way of pushing him home, she used her body and her heart and the benefits of her companionship to lure him home, demonstrating that a much different wife awaited him if he would only go to her and embrace her and overcome his fear that she was plotting to trap him and starve him of affection once again.