I cannot answer now as H is here visiting for the weekend. First time since Christmas all 5 of us together, and that was the first time in 2 years....there is friction between H and all of us, really. He is trying in his way, but it's so far short of what THEY need from him. Like an acknowledgment of what happened, how it hurt them, especially d18...will it ever happen? Does it have to? Don't know yet. I DO know I see h differently and am trying hard to get that lovin' feeling back....harder than I thought. I don't know if we'll make it. But we're trying. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
He is much more controlling than I remembered, or maybe I'd forgotten. It's as if he is here to "fix" things, and it makes me feel defensive. As if everything would fall apart if not for him. The thing is, we've done pretty damn well without him and now there is so much more tension. I'm a night person and h is a morning person. This is just a fact that we've dealt with. But he makes me "wrong" to be a night person and criticizes me for staying up late or wakes EVERYONE up in the morning by turning on their lights (this does not go over well with s20 or d18, or d9 for that matter.) He insists they get up. He implies that they are lazy if they don't get up then, and if they say they were up late, he blames them. He just seems to order them around uncer the guise of helping...
He seems unable to sit down and relax unless we ALL ask him to just chill and only at night, for an hour or so, is he able to watch a movie or play cards. While he is busy doing some "project", he expects us ALL to be doing something as well. So he is in effect, structuring, or re-structuring our lives to comport with his. Mega controlling. Also, many of these "projects' are going to be huge hassles for ME, as he'll be gone. He chopped a tree down, not the birch trees that were dead, just some tree he thought was bad. So that took a day and then he flew north and left a fallen tree in the back yard. I paid some handymen 1,000$ to haul the debris away, chop down the parasite ridden birch trees, etc. H would be upset if he knew that, but having debris in the yard was something he did NOT have to deal with. Now he is "cleaning out the garage" which makes our front yard look like white trash lives here AND he's leaving tomorrow night. I will have to go through everything to find a place for it, which is the hardest part for me anyhow. The heavy stuff....s20 can help but has to watch it due to an arm injury/surgery he had. But he's pretty strong....I'm venting. I know. I have to vent.
I do want to love him but right now he just seems so oblivious to what a big drag he has become....and I hate saying this arm chair psychology stuff but he is a LOT like his dad, who is on wife #4 and was always really bossy/dictatorial until this M. Guess the good news there is that fil did change, after the ripe age of 62...
If I'm watching tv, it bothers h. Actually, if anyone is watching tv, it bothers him. The laundry was overwhelming but the house was spotless when h arrived (I hired a housekeeper, btw). I suggested we all just bite the bullet, go to a laundromat and get it all done in 2 hours, OR let him leave it and I'll get to it at some sort of faster rate. Nope, h did 12 loads and laid ALL the clothes out on the sofa's and living room furniture for SOMEONE to fold and put away and he wants to be THANKED for that. He asked me to make a list of things to do.
This is a big diff between h and me. I've always hated lists, they feel burdensome to me. There are exceptions, like groceries or things for a case, etc. But a "TO DO" list can just bring me down. H LOVES lists and I'm not saying he is wrong. But he is saying I am, for not liking them. And he insists I make a list for him and me. I sure don't want HIM writing the list, it'll take a week of back breaking effort to complete.
You'd think after all this time apart that something in him would be different. But it is not him that has gone to counselling and DB coaching and this bb. It's ME. So while I've grown and gotten to a much better place inside me, h has barely moved. OR so I think. Maybe I'm wrong. I sure hope I am wrong about that. I said I don't want to fall into old behaviors and he agreed. But this constant need to DO something at ALL times, is a Drag. EACH child has asked me when h is leaving.....OMG I found myself wondering exactly when his flt leaves Tuesday, and I know there will be a collective sigh of relief when that happens.
This is NOT good. It does not bode well. SO I am going to re-read my DB coach notes for positives, and try hard to see if a lot of this is just me not really forgiving him. DB lady says h should express genuine remorse and promise to do things differently going forward. I've "extracted" some apology from him, and I think he meant it. Thing is, h is "done" now with all that. As if it's "Time to "forget" everything the past 2 years, and move forward with a smile on my face." I do have resentments and have to turn them over....
One huge promise h has made repeatedly is how great (and different) it'll be in Alaska when d9 and I join him....but what exactly does that mean? I said I no longer want a M in which the R itself is not a priority. H agreed last fall. Wanted "to prove to me that he can be a better h" (HIS WORDS!!!!)
IF he is going to treat me like a priority which he once said, why not start now? Here? Why wait 'til I've uprooted me and d9 and our home? I remodelled this house, which H chose, and it was a big deal. I put a lot of myself into it. I wanted a smaller but newer home that didn't need "updating" (btw, "updating" is code for "MAJOR RENOVATIONS). It has been labor intensive for ME, but has had little effet on h since he's gone. I notice that I dislike the changes he makes without discussing and always sees them as improvements over what I chose. Maybe I'm mindreading but I know that's at least partly true. I have a big chip on my shoulder now and I have to let it go.
Putting a positive light on this-----okay, MAYBE h is thinking he has to DO stuff around the house b/c he has been gone so much (duh) and this makes him feel less guilty. Okay, I can buy that. It's not the best of motives but it IS a good one. I have to rise to the occasion now and Praise him for this --which makes me want to shake my head and say, "oh for God's sake, this is the LEAST you can do, and don't you dare make me help YOU when I've done it ALL by myself for almost 2 years. But that would not be db-ing. Thanking him for the "1%" he does right, is what the DB coach told me to do and she admits it is SO hard....but it helps the sitch a lot more than complaining.
I see the struggle now is not so much internal for me, as it is behavioral. I MUST change the ways I react/interact with him. I have to recall my role in our M's earlier problems...and remember the things I said I'd do differently.
H needs my appreciation and praise, a lot. He always has. That is the love language he needs from me, along with affection/touch. I am fine with that except you know how hard it is to thank someone for working hard in the house or yard for TWO days, when you are alone with it all, for 28 days a month....
IF MY motivation to go up there is financial, am I doing the morally wrong thing? I honestly am not sure of all the reasons I seem willing to go, but I know that if I suddenly won the lottery, I'd be seriously reconsidering going up there at all, let alone to stay. This troubles me of course. But d9-----although she gets mad at his "bossiness", she loves him and he has played b-ball with her. They've played together much more than the older kids have with h. Easy to see why.
DB coach said not to triangulate between h and kids, but maybe defend the one being attacked to some degree, then let go and have them deal with their R's. Easier said than done. Plus, I am running out of explanations for h. S20 told me that I've changed, for the better. Then of course, he went on to say that h has not changed or grown...
What have I been thinking was so different between us that I'd be willing to go up there after all this crap, AND his own belief in the cover story? (Meaning, h has revised the 2 years into a sacrifice HE made FOR the family....blah blah blah, jammer jammer, clang clang AND THAT is frightening.) How do people do things that they admit are wrong, at first. Only to later "See" it differently? With time, they learn to rationalize their wrongs and sometimes, like my h, turn them into GOOD things/acts. H said some insightful things last fall. Where'd that guy go? Why is the old but obnoxious h back, without any of the old (really long ago) good guy, OR new good guy? Why the backslide on his part AND mine?
I am going back to being a resentful bitch every time he tries to control, or makes a selfish choice...Not good of ME. Maybe we don't bring out the best in each other, and maybe that's a sign.
We'll need help to make any of this work. H is willing to see the male mc I saw last year so I'll call him to make an appointment if H is ever here at the right time. We need some ground rules and when I bring THAT up, he agrees and then somehow attacks me. Like if I say, "let's agree from now on, that we won't buy something over 200$ without telling the other" and h will say "that's what I have been saying all along, YOU are the one spending like a crazy woman." WTF is he talking about?!! HE borrowed 24k from his family to buy medical equipment that HIS group could have paid for!! We have no money for a vacation as a family, and d18 is going to college this fall at the same time s20 is finishing so we'll have TWO tuitions to pay.... oh and btw, he did NOT tell me about that "loan/gift" and we fought about it but he DID say later he was wrong to do that.
I mean, he just blew a perfect chance to show me that he can treat me as an equal partner and be honest....
I am ashamed to say that One reason I don't feel like divorcing, is the hassle...isn't that crappy? I mean I've got major hassles no matter what, thanks to H. Either we move half our stuff up there to live and keep our home here....or we Div and sell and divide, etc. I'll be spending more time with him in the next month than we have in 2 years. It's not too late to make a different choice. Hate confusing d9 so much. She does not want to move, and I sure don't.
How can someone who loves me, wish this terrible upheaval upon me? Is his "mission" something I'll never understand? Does it matter? I am going to take some deep breaths, read a few DB notes, and try to UNconditionally love h, even if just for today...one day at a time, right? j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
After reading that all I can say is that he is selfish, selfish, selfish, oh and may I add a master manipulator as well!
OK, so what's in this for you? Why wouldn't you be somewhat negative? You are the one making all of the concessions and have for the last few years.
He says that if your not happy within 2 years he'll leave with you. I don't think from what you wrote that you are at all convinced that this is true.
He should be haunted about how he treated his kids. Obviously he is the most important person in his life. Look around at someone who is a truly loving and involved Father. Nothing could make them choose between their job or their kids, especially when they had the luxury of choice. Sorry but this makes me so angry. As I said before, I lived your life.
Love, Bethie
At the risk of getting everyone upset with me again I stand by what I had originally written. I'm sure that he was lonely and may have meant what he said when he originally called, but on what terms?
You know J, my kids said things to me all along about how their Father was acting but I wouldn't listen. Sometimes it's easier to see when you're once removed. What was the purpose of this hit and run visit if not to be with his family and it doesn't sound as if he really tried to be a part of things while he's been there.
If you're uneasy now, how will you feel when you are out of your little cacoon and feeling so isolated? I still believe that this is more about control then anything else and he sounds like a definite control freak.
I have said on my own thread how peaceful my life has become and happy as well. When you're in it there is so much you can't see. There is no easy fix here. Why would you not see after this weekend that moving to Alaska would'nt be more of the same? I take that back I think you do!
Piecing is the hardest place to be. Most times we've changed but nothing has changed within these spouses. Then your choice becomes do I do all of the work and do I change to fit their demands? Or do you say show me the money first?
Good luck Sweetie with however you decide to take this!
25 yrs, I only read the first few paragraphs of your post and couldn't finish it. I didn't read more than the first sentence of Beth's. I'm still wondering "why" you have to "make" yourself have loving feelings for this man? From what I read, he has not changed one iota. You are making excuses for him. You don't even like him and neither do your kids. He behaved terribly this past weekend when he should have been doing his best to fit in with the rest of the family. Why, why, why, are you leaving your's and D9's good life behind to live with this man? You sound like a wonderfully funny, intelligent, together woman. I don't understand this at all.
Honestly, if it were me. I'd wait til he got back to Alaska and tell him that you didn't get warm fuzzies while he was here and you're not moving. Period. All the changes he promised did not happen. Sometimes there are worse things than getting a D and living with the type of man your H is may be one of them in my book.
Sorry if this offends anyone but I'm a straight forward kinda girl.
I appreciate ALL the feedback. I really do. It helps. I brought up our R last night and said some things, calmly, that I needed to say. I told him specifically what I need more of, and he seemed like he heard me. So last night he sat down on the couch, after all day of yard stuff/garage etc. and curled up with the kids and watched a movie and scratched each others backs, etc. It was nice. He is trying harder today and asking me for input galore. Almost too much, but it's well intended.
As much as I detest saying this, I feel as if I'm having a MLC myself. I've spent 2 years talking to others about how love is a choice we make. Yet I'm having trouble making that very choice. When I hear or see something from the days when we were so close, I can ALMOST get there, but it is like looking at a painting with a stain on it now. My friend said look at it as a tapestry with some parts better than others, and don't stand too close or all you'll see are the errors in workmanship.
Btw, H has consistently told me ILY even while gone--simply justified the departure, like a soldier getting deployed who has a mission and no "real" choice...DB Coach said maybe I should think of Alaska as Iraq. I am not so sure. We were both in the Army and served in Desert Storm and this is NOT the same thing to me. But she may have meant it as a coping tool for dealing with my anger which I thought I was DONE with!! How long does it take to forgive? J-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
He is much more controlling than I remembered, or maybe I'd forgotten. It's as if he is here to "fix" things, and it makes me feel defensive. As if everything would fall apart if not for him. The thing is, we've done pretty damn well without him and now there is so much more tension. I'm a night person and h is a morning person. This is just a fact that we've dealt with. But he makes me "wrong" to be a night person and criticizes me for staying up late or wakes EVERYONE up in the morning by turning on their lights (this does not go over well with s20 or d18, or d9 for that matter.) He insists they get up. He implies that they are lazy if they don't get up then, and if they say they were up late, he blames them. He just seems to order them around uncer the guise of helping...
So many of the things you mentioned in your 1st paragraph matches my wife and me. Plus the rest about your spousing expecting everyone else to work on or help with their projects.
I guess maybe you need to think about the worse case when it comes to sticking it out and moving to Alaska to be with your husband and try to rebuild your relationship. If you can come to terms with "worse case" then it can only get better than that right? As far as love being a choice, I truly believe that, but it takes consistant actions to make that choice come alive, if you can't follow thru with loving actions behind your choice then I doubt you'll get anywhere.
Oh and hey, as part of your own MLC how about an adventure in Alaska?
Take care, remember that your lucky to have choices in all of this, most of us have no choices, -JDK
thanks for reminding me of something important but easy to forget. I DO have a choice and so many do not...My prayer is to open my mind and heart to the possibility of being happy there and to open my heart to h, to ask for help healing our M. My h is better at being a man than some of my posts reveal. Fact is, we all mostly vent here. It's not quite balanced and you also do have to recall that when others tell You to blow your Marriage off b/c all they hear and see are the negatives. Then, my thinking is that I need some specifics in my mind as to what being happy there would look like. DB coach suggested that, and she's smart to do so. Also suggested H do the same (he may see this as a "list of TO DO" things--which he'll like. For me, all I can do is lessen the risk, never eliminating it. But then that IS life.
Seriously though, I have thought DAILY of cancelling out and just saying NOPE, NOT GOING, and letting him file, or doing so myself. How uncertain can that get? See, I do feel like an MLCer but it's really just a LBSer wondering, after all this inward searching and counselling, etc. whether it/he is worth it....but I have to remind myself that there are others in this to consider...d9 will face upheaval, but she'll have a dad around. Some of the upheaval won't be negative, it'll be adventurous and I think that IS the attitude to have. Just gotta work on it, hard. Thanks again. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
