and never felt the same sense of security in his mother's love as before.
IMO, it's would do worse than make your wife feel insecure. It would make her feel like you're such a wimp that not only would you hand over your lunch money to another guy, you would ask her to hand over her lunch money too.
In future, I'll just leave the metaphor to you. As usual, you express it much better than I ever could!
And don't let her think I could or would approve of anything untoward. Part of me thinks it would be sexy, but it would also be reckless, and I don't approve of her taking stupid risks like that with our health and our family. Convey that to her wholeheartedly. Start on that at the next opportunity.
I may have missed something, but are you saying that you have told her previously that you would like to see her with other men?
MrsNOP -
No, I have never said or implied anything like that. I did say "jealousy makes me horny", and I've said things like "come her, and I'll make you forget all about whats-his-name". The fantasy I speak of has never been mentioned or hinted at to anyone in real life. She may have some suspicion of it, though, simply because she reads me so well.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
1. She shows no reluctance to discuss any aspect of her activities, nor to account for any of her time, nor to answer any question I come up with. I have no doubt that this will continue as long as her activities remain innocent and my interest in her life remains sincere and without insecurity or unfounded suspicion.
2. She has been working with the trainer off and on for about eight months, and the only major changes I have observed during that time is that she and I have gradually grown closer and more affectionate, and she has shown more confidence in dealing with the rest of humanity in general as her energy level and appearance improve, and much less cranky with me and the kids. She shows every sign of feeling more loved, cherished, and respected by me than ever before, and returns those feelings wholeheartedly.
So, I must have been doing something right so far.
On the other hand, she's a lot better at reading me than I am at reading her, although I think I'm starting to catch on. So there could still be some surprises in store for me down the road.
Now y'all are telling me that I am supposed to restrict her activities for her own good. This strikes me as one of the most disrespectful things you can do to somebody. That's what you do to children, and they're required by law to put up with it for 6,575 days and not a minute longer. After that, as far as I can tell, the proper way to deal with somebody is by suggestion, by persuasion, by attaching conditions to your willingness to deal with them or to do something for them, by being somebody that people want to deal with, by setting boundaries on things that you are not willing to endure from anyone you choose to deal with.
Setting boundaries for her benefit? Restricting her own activities to make her feel protected? Threatening to kick her out in order to make her feel loved? That just feels completely messed up to me. Of course one of the big reasons I keep getting into trouble is that I'm weird, and I don't really have a firm grip on how the rest of humanity thinks (although I've been learning), and I'm not even always certain about how I think. So I'm definitely approaching this with an open mind.
Now I'm well aware these days that I have to be willing and able to live without her if need be in order for her to really want to live with me. The next step, from what I'm seeing, is that I have to really, deep down be willing to throw her out under circumstances in which I really, really wouldn't want to (or more to the point, reach a state of mind in which I would want to) in order to keep her respect and make her feel loved. Kind of like mutually assured destruction - we had to be willing to wipe the Russians off the face of the Earth, knowing our own destruction would almost certainly follow, in order to keep nuclear weapons from going off throughout the Cold War and Russian conventional forces out of Europe.
Have to think on this for a while... I can't fake that mindset, I'd have to really be in it to make it work. In the meantime, I'll continue to keep a sincere, loving interest in her daily activities while providing plenty of love and manly attention to ensure that she wants nothing more than to keep coming home for more of it.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Now y'all are telling me that I am supposed to restrict her activities for her own good.
Setting boundaries for her benefit? Restricting her own activities to make her feel protected? Threatening to kick her out in order to make her feel loved?
Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?
I've ran back throught this thread and can't seem to find what you are responding to.
Now y'all are telling me that I am supposed to restrict her activities for her own good. This strikes me as one of the most disrespectful things you can do to somebody.
I agree
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?
I've ran back throught this thread and can't seem to find what you are responding to.
MrsNOP -
The most recent was the following:
Originally Posted By: SouthernGirl
No. Do NOT convey that to her (the bold part). Convey to her that you'd kick her out the door if she ever crossed the line with any guy, and you'd expect the same from her.
If you say what you said above, it'll stick in her mind like a burr. Like the boy whose mother, on one normal Wednesday, jokingly told him "I really wanted a girl, you know" ... and who was never able to forget that, and never felt the same sense of security in his mother's love as before.
The rest of your post, I agree with.
There's other little bits and pieces all over the place that seemed to say the same thing, unless I've been missing the point.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Telling your spouse that you will not condone/accept her pursuit of infidelity isn't doing something just for "her own good." It is recognizing that some actions by your spouse will elicit a boundary response from you.
All you have to do is look around you to see that marriages aren't indestructible. To me, it is reasonable to think that each spouse must make efforts to make the relationship strong.
There are often unavoidable things that many marriages have to deal with that have a negative impact: illness, financial distress, deployment, work associated travel, extended family issues, work related demands, etc.
Then there are the things we choose, often blind to their impact, that push the marriage into critical mass. Money/time consuming hobbies, barhopping with the guys/gals, friendships with the opposite sex, sexually charged flirtations, swinging, recreational choices that exclude the spouse, etc.
Pushing/encouraging your spouse in flirtations with other people is the equivalent (IMO) of taking a wrecking ball and bouncing it against the side of your marital "house."
At some point, the wrecking ball is going to breach the walls and your marriage will suffer the consequences.
If you (and I'm speaking hypothetically in all this) and your spouse expends time and energy into outside pursuits *without* a reciprocal investment of time/energy into the marriage, the marriage will eventually suffer.
She's going to the trainer today. I left for work (she was still in bed) and I said "Be good"
Her: Why? Me: Because you're butt's getting a lot smaller and you don't have much padding if I have to spank you!
She smiled at that and I left. Who knows what she thinks of that, but she wasn't offended and she hasn't ever shown any sign of even considering doing anything amiss, but maybe that little exchange made her feel loved and cherished. Or maybe she just rolled her eyes after I left. It probably didn't hurt, though.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 05/30/0701:33 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
My understanding of humanity in general, and my wife in particular, continues growing.
The other day, a home maintenance issue came up. I had spent some time trying to fix it, with her helpful cooperation. But I had reached the end of my knowledge, and was just about to say that I had no choice but to call the repair guy, when she blew up at me before I'd had a chance to say or do any such thing.
With a vicious tone that I hadn't heard in quite a while, she told me that I'd better get off my ass and call the repair guy.
Now this time I was able to keep my wits about me, and use previous experience and new knowledge to guide me. Previous experience showed that complying with her orders would do me no good at all, and neither would any argument I could possibly offer... in both cases, she would fume for hours, angrily refuse to answer any questions or cooperate in any way, and generally act as if every move I made was unbelievably stupid and/or hurtful and furiously announce my incompetence to anyone within earshot.
So it was time to try something different. I calmly sat down at the kitchen table near her and started reading a book. It was a pretty good book, and I really got into it. I told her (not that I expected her to believe me or respond with anything but contempt, and I was right in that expectation) that I was just about to call the repair guy, but I couldn't do it now that she'd told me to in such a disrespectful way.
After about half an hour of silence, I decided I could freely take care of business without suffering the penalty associated with following her orders. I looked for the phone and couldn't find it, so I found my cellphone, called the repair guy from the bedroom, and left a message.
By the time he called back, she had come in and started softening! She admitted that she HID THE PHONE FROM ME when she saw that I was about to start looking for it, and said she wasn't going to answer it when it rang, because she was going to "get me back". (For what?) When it rang, she gave it to me and I answered it and she cooperated fully and cheerfully, and was once again my partner rather than my prosecutor.
So what set her off? According to alpha man theory as I understand it, I lost a lot of points by (a) being unable to fix the problem myself and (b) being unhappy about calling the repair guy and spending the money... money simply isn't a problem for the ideal alpha man; he can get a better job (that doesn't require more hours, mind you) or take better care of the finances. So I let her down. But at least I didn't let her walk all over me, which won me some points and got her back on board a lot quicker than usual.
I still find myself wishing that she could just cooperate with me when things go wrong without sniffing for the slightest hint of frustration or fear on my part and viciously pouncing on it and derailing any possible response for a while. But it seems I might as well wish for a lottery victory while I'm at it.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 05/30/0703:23 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
You handled that brilliantly! What a stupid childish act on her part to hide the phone when SHE told you to call the repairman. Heck next time she tries a childish stunt like that...spank her and tell her "that's what bad girls get."
You didn't tolerate her uncalled for behavior, and you didn't allow her to dictate to you what you should do...and then berate you for it. Keep this up and she's going to learn she cannot be have this way with you.
