Sol, for a long time you obsessed about the A and now you obsess about MC. You are so stuck in the hurt and anger, it is very hard to DB properly. Is it righteous hurt and anger? Damn right! But, is it helping your sitch? NO. It's forcing you to make ultimatums that can only have one result, separation! As others have said, if you feel that is what must happen then continue, noone will judge you, we've all got our breaking point. But, if you want the M, then you must get out of the anger cycle. I too can sit down and tell my W that we must go to C or the party is over but that will just mean the party is over! It's not there for either of us. Think long and hard about how you approach this Sol. Let anger take a vacation to Disney World but you mellow and make good choices. You can do it, Sol!
You seem to be sounding good. One suggestion -- Why not take it one step at a time?
Step 1: change the dance -- get unenmeshed, set boundaries, enforce them, and so on, let go of the old M (FOR YOU)
Step 2: see what happens with W, she will HAVE to change in someway, make new movement of some sort if you change the dance. (ALSO DO THIS FOR YOU BECAUSE YOUR LIFE WILL GO BETTER KNOWING YOU GAVE YOUR M THIS CHANCE TO SUCCEED.)
Step 3: set a deadline -- 6 months from now, a year, two weeks, whatever. When you reach the deadline, then evaluate whether or not you want to move on. (THIS DEADLINE IS VERY IMPORTANT, it is what you remember when you feel like a victim. YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM, YOU CHOSE TO BE IN THE SITCH FOR A PERIOD OF TIME FOR YOUR OWN REASONS.
Step 4: "Move on" or return to Step 1, whichever you choose as the right step for YOU.
So, to sum up, my suggestion is that you do this important work on yourself and see what that does to shake up the R between you and W before throwing in the towel and moving on.
If you have to "move on" to get unenmeshed, then you probably aren't really getting unenmeshed. Whether it is another R, a D, or both that you use to "move on" is still really all about W and getting distance from her, but the ties will remain thick and messy. Get unenmeshed first, then you can move on cleanly if it turns out to make sense for you.
I need some help here.....by getting "unenmeshed" that means I have to seriously detach, correct? And learn to live my life without being so connected to her.....and do the things that make me really happy and that I have missed out on (within reason).
I am doing that now, and the thing is that I am not letting my W have any more power over me....like asking me where I am going, or if I did so and so around the house......but also not being rude, just letting her know that I have an individual brain just like she does and I deserve a little ounce of respect from her, and in turn I will give her the respect she deserves but also the distance that we both need.
My biggest struggle is with setting boundaries with her....she will flat out disrespect them, and the consequence of her breaking those boundaries is for me to move closer to separation.....
Also, I don't want THIS marriage anymore....it is the same one, and nothing has changed. I don't want it. And I don't really want her the way she is. I will change, and if she changes then we have something to work on. So far, she has not changed in her ways. More is going on with SIL and OM (not getting obsessed about OM)...but that it is a major issue that has everything to do with the outcome of our M.....and it is also one of my boundaries she is not respecting.....
For some reason I just had a look around the house. I was thinking about family, and I walked around the house and realized every single piece of furniture is hers or her choice, and every photograph displayed is of my W, daughter, or her family and friends. There is NOT ONE single picture of me displayed....and I have taken lots of photos with my W and kids......it has been this way since I can remember. Just a thought, but it is interesting to note nonetheless of how she views this family and our M.
Last edited by sol1696; 05/28/0706:20 PM.
~Sol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Single Dad, and luvin it! ~ Happiness is a state of mind ~
Interesting observation about the pictures. I have the same thing at my house, no pictures of me and my wife together are displayed on the walls. Yeah there are a few of me, but its with the kids only. Never as a family.
The enmeshment stuff is something good to work on with your C. I don't have time to post much these days, so I can't say much more. Reading PM (Passionate Marriage) might be useful.
But, think about your behavior in the house. If I was living with someone who didn't tell me where they were going or wouldn't let me ask whether something had been taken care of, I'd feel like I was living with a teenager -- someone in a very reactive place. I don't follow your sitch closely, so I don't know all the dynamics between you and W. So, I don't know if that replies. But to me, it would be less reactive to tell W when you go out and when you expect to be home and how she can get in touch with you in case of emergency (unless, I guess, if she doesn't do the same for you. but, kids are involved, yes? so it seems you should have an idea of each other's schedules for their sakes). So, for instance, you could just say, "I'm going out in about 1/2 an hour for the rest of the day. I expect to be back by 9pm. If you need me, I'll have my cell." Or, if she is asking you about some household matter, "W, that is not something I am putting on my to do list right now, I have too many other priorities." or "W, I know that is important and it is on my to do list. I expect to get to it in the next week, if my priorities don't shift." or "W, fyi, I took care of so and so." The point here is to just report what you want about yourself without trying to manage W.
Sol, Oldtimer is making some good suggestions. By not letting her know, for example, that you are going out or how long you expect to be gone or where to reach you it could be seen as passive aggressive hostility. In her mind, your actions could be interpreted as you trying to inflict punishment on her, not as detachment. Detachment cannot be done while angry, it just can't! When you reported the info about the pictures and the furniture it told me that you are NOT detached. You are still looking for things to fuel the resentment, and that is pretty darn human to do! So, if you really want to detach (and I have no friggin idea of how to do it myself) follow Oldtimers suggestions for now and hopefully others can give you some more guidance. So hang in there, tatoo man!
#21097 - 09/22/99 02:40 PM Re: DETACHING with LOVE vs CONTROLLING Sue Sue Member
Registered: 07/23/99 Posts: 2397 Loc: California
Detaching is not detaching from the person whom we care about, but from the agony of involvement. Detachment is something we must do first! before we can begin to work on ourselves, to live our own lives, feel our own feelings, and solve our own problems until we have detached from the object of our obsession. It appears that even our Higher Power cant do much with us until we have detached.
Attachement is becoming overly -involved, sometimes hopelessly entangled.
Attachment can take several froms:
* we may become excessively worried abut, and preoccupied with, a problem or person (our mental energy is attached).
*Or, we may graduate to becoming obsessed with and controlling of the people and problems in our enviroment (our mental, physical, and emotional energy is directed at the object of our obsession).
* we may become reactionaries, instead of acting authentically of our own volition (our mental, emotional, and physical energy is attached).
* We may become emotionally dependent on the people around us (now were really attached).
* WE may become caretakers (rescuers, enablers) to the people around us (firmly attaching ourselves to their need for us).
Overinvolvement of any kind may keep us in a state of chaos. Worrying and obsessing keep us so tangled in our heads we cant solve our problems. Whenever we become attached in these ways to someone or something, we become dtached from ourselves. We lose touch with ourselves. WE forfeit our power and ability to think feel act and take care of ourselves. We lose control.
Detachment is not a cold hostile withdrawal; a resigned, despairing acceptance of anything life and people throw our way; a robotical walk through life oblivious to and totally unaffected by people and problems. Nor is it a removal of our love and concern.
Ideally dtachemnt is releasing or detaching from a person or problem in love. WE mentally emotionally and smetimes phusically disengage oursleves from unhealthy and frequently painful entanglements with another persons life and reponsibilities, and from problems we cannot solve, according to a handout, entitled "Detachment." that has been passed around al-anon groupos for years.
Detachment is based on the premises that each person is responsible for himself, htat we cant solve problems that arent ours to solve, and that worrying doesnt help. Keep our hands off of other peoples responsibilities. Detachment involves present moment living-living in the here and now. We allow life to happen instead of forcing and trying to control it. we relinquish regrets over the past and fears about the future we make the most of each day. Also accepting reality - the facts. It requires faith - in ourselves, in God, in other people, and in the natural order and destiny of things in this world.
Detaching does not mean we dont care. It means we learn to love, care, and be involved without going crazy. We stop creating all this chaos in our minds and enviroments. We become free to care and to love in ways that help others and dont hurt ourselves.
The rewards of from detachment are great: serenity; a deep sense of peace; the ability to give and receive love in self-enhancing, energizing ways; and the freedom to find real soulutions to our problems.
I know you have problems. I understand that many of you are deeply grieved over, and concernd about, cerain people in your lives. Many of htem may be destroying themselves, you, and your family, right before your eyes. But I cant do anything to control those people; and you probably cant either. If you could you would have done it by now.
Detach. Detach in love, or dteach in anger, but strive for detachment. It will become easier with practice.
Activity
1. Is there a problem or person in your life that you are excessively worried about? Write about that person or problem. Write as much as you need to write to get it out of your system. When you have written all you need to write about that person or problem, focus on yourself. What are you thinking? What are you feeling?
2. How do you feel about detaching from that person or problem? What might happen if you detach? Will that probably happen anyway? How has staying "attached"--worrying obsessing trying to control -- helped so far?
3. If you did not have that person or problem in your life, what would you be doing with your life that is different from what you are doing now? How would you be feeling and behaving? Spend a few minutes visualizing yourself living your life, feeling and behaving that way -- in spite of your unsolved problem. Visualize His hands placing in Gods hands the person or problem you are concerned about. Visualize His hands gently and loving ly holding tht person or willingly accepting that problem. Now visualize His hands holding you. All is wel for the moment. All is as it should and as it needs to be. All will be well--better than you think.
Whatis...its just that the advice I am getting, and its excellent advice here....is just misplaced for me and my sitch ....if I reveal all, then everyone would understand.
As far as my M problems.....all the advice given is precisely what I should do. But before I can do that, my W needs to respect the boundaries I have given her.....or else all I do is in vain.
I am getting 3 free counseling sessions with a top psychologist in my area. My W is invited to go, that's all I can do for her. I am going for me, and I am highly interested in what she (the doc) will have to say about me and about my sitch.
I want to be sure that I am thinking clearly.......if I am insane to save this M or not. I'm not going to be posting as much now, I am at the end of my rope here. I will post when I have my session....and I plan to have more than 3. Believe it or not, it took guts for me to go back to counseling.....maybe my W is afraid to see that she really has issues? Well, if I am going to "man up", then my W should also "woman up" as well and go to therapy herself. My insurance covers it, so she has no excuse about paying for it!
Last edited by sol1696; 05/30/0701:53 PM.
~Sol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Single Dad, and luvin it! ~ Happiness is a state of mind ~
SOL Good luck with the C. I think your head is in the right place. We need to get our own house in order first. I went to C. It great because they ask you the questions that make you think more clearly with out the emotions clouding everything up.
Please come back after and let me know how it went
Husband
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
