W is nuts, and I need to detach......

[oldtimer]

But, the point was, it wasn't about YOU, but about her and her own problems facing herself...

[~Sol]

Right....she has her own problems that she does not want to face.

I am working on fixing up the house on my own now....it might get sold, it might not. But it needs some fixing.

She is still set on going to Disneyworld or to a closer amusement park with money that we don't have....

[~Sol]

Also wanted to add that my W keeps looking at my requests about going to therapy, anger mgt, no contact with OP, which I emailed her also. She is still quiet and has not responded to the requests - all I got was that she can't stand me and that I deprive her life.

I have not pushed the issue anymore - she knows I want to work on the M, perhaps it's MY way, and maybe she has HER way of "working" on it.....but I STRONGLY beleive that we need to get our issues out to a professional - or we will REPEAT the same mistakes as before, she will NOT be happy, she NEEDS to get her DEPRESSION in check....etc, etc..

I have never been more clear about what I want out of this R/M with her now that I have a better understanding of the "whole picture".

Is there another way to get to the issues at hand? My M is still broken, and no amount of one-sided sex, being nice, or vacations is going to fix this.

If it IS all about HER.....then she needs to go see her doctor and a therapist. I offer, she rejects.

[DadNotQuitting]

Good gosh OT, when did you meet my wife? Seriously, OT's answer to the question could not be more perfect in my opinion. I know it is the case with my wife. I would add though that some of the fear is not always about other people seeing who she has become, but more that she is afraid of what she has to go through once all the demons of the past come out of the closet to be dealt with.

[oldtimer]

"Good gosh OT, when did you meet my wife? "

Well, that was the reason I turned down MC the one time XH hinted at it about 10 years before the bomb. That was pretty much his only expression of being unhappy with the M, and I ignored it because I was to insecure to confront myself.

[Dr LOve]

Ot

My W had the PA. She is seeing a C (at least I know she was) Even though it is to help HER under stand her feelings do you think If you would have done this It may have helped your R. All my W talkes about is how her mom was so unhappy all those years. But never really relates it to the marriage. At least not verbaly

Husband

[oldtimer]

Husband,

Oh, my post may have been confusing.

I didn't have an EA or PA, though my XH did, and he was a WAS. When I ignored his single hint about MC about seven years into the M, I was simply unhappy in my life and had unresolved issues from earlier in my life from my childhood and teen years that were part of that unhappiness that I didn't want to grapple with.

So, I don't really know what to say about your W. My guess would be that C will help her deal with her unresolved issues (her conflicted feelings about M because of her mother, for instance, probably leave her with a distorted view of what love and loyalty in an M require that leaves her unenthusiastic about M) and bring her closer to a place where she might be able to work on her current issues in your M. But I really dunno.

I can tell you when XH dropped the bomb I had seen a C for a few years and was growing *past* XH. At some point, I insisted on MC and he went, but he would not confront me on anything he was unhappy about so it was unproductive. At bomb time, I was ready for MC again, but, although he went, XH wasn't ready to do the real work because by that time he was avoiding confronting himself AND avoiding confronting me. I think he tolerated it mostly because it was focused on my own confessed failings in the M and his extreme blame-me-for-everything-wron-in-his-life accusations that miss real confrontation because they don't get real about the problems in the M, but when things would shift to really look at him, he shut down in it.

So, anyway, I think MC can very often be pointless, or worse, do more harm than good, when one or both partners aren't ready to confront both themselves AND each other in it. BOTH are essential to it being a productive enterprise. And both require pretty strong people who have themselves together enough to know what they want, to be able to break ties of sick enmeshment, and to be able to set and enforce boundaries.

[~Sol]

OT, I am at the point of breaking the enmeshed emotions and conditioning I have created in myself and in this M. I was afraid to let go, mainly BECAUSE I was enmeshed....and saw it difficult to move on.

I am the one that is willing to go see a C and look at myself hard in the mirror, and also in my M. My W is not.....otherwise she would go. She says that MC "doesn't work" - but she has never tried it, so how could she come to that assessment? She is afraid to go, I know that much. But I also want her to know that I am not going to be her "provider" if she doesn't see me as being her "husband"....she doesn't see me as that. I think that my W is more enmeshed than I am.

But she is not willing to even meet me half-way in getting our M "on track". My M is right where it was 1, 5 or 8 years ago. It was highly conflicted, even during dating. My W is more afraid to be on her own than I am. It shouldn't be this way - I think both of us don't really know what a good M is supposed to be, but I know what a bad M is....

[Sigh]

Hey Sol,

OT hit this right on the head. Your W is not ready to confront the fact that she has real issues. She is not ready to see that she had any part in breaking up your marriage.

She is not ready to face it. Will she ever be? I do not know, but you are still trying to "force" the issue.

I still see a lot of anger and resentment in your writing. I know these things are not easy to deal with.

At this point, giving her a list of what she "has to" do to save this M will probably end it. If that is truly what you want, and what you need, then you have to move forward.

I will be honest with you, you do not want to save your M. Your old M is dead. Leave it dead! You need to see this as starting a new R, and possibly M with your W.

Do you need a C, abosultely, for yourself. Does she need one, I have little doubt from what you have posted, but she has to do this on her own terms, not as an ultimatum. The fact that she wants to plan a vacation at this point speaks volumes. She is not ready to confront her deamons or issues. She wants to run from them and hope they go away. We all know that does not happen.

You need to do what is best for you Sol. My H and I tried for 18 months to move past my A's. We could not go anywhere. He has recenlty told me, he was unable to try because he always had the "why should I bother" attitude.

He still has that attitude, he can not forgive me. I do not expect his forgiveness for me, but I wish he could for himself. To get him out of the anger and hate he has.

We are separating this Tuesday (my new place is almost ready). To top ot all off, he told me this weekend, he has fallen in love with another woman, within a two week timeframe. They speak over the net and e-mails, and she actually called him this weekend.

That whole story is in the We are separated section.

Bottom line, do what is best for YOU Sol.

[~Sol]

All I can do is leave her alone now, I told her what she needs to do. If she wants to run from her demons by taking a short vacation (with whatever money she has stashed - cos I don't have any for this...), then she can go on her vacation be herself. She wants to drag me along for whatever reason, but I will not aid her in running from herself. I know it's hard to face our own demons, but we must face them if we are to grow.

Yes, I still have resentment and anger, but not like before.

I am just taking a stand for what I believe is right, and I am going to MC for myself.