MLC thoughts and observations

[braveheart]

WOW! Guys, again, I didn't mean for everyone to take this as a hostile attack on your beliefs. I didn't realize I would get my head ripped off for having a different outlook on this situation! First, AMYC, I certainly didn;t mean to cast a negative light on your situation, on the contrary, I was comending you for having the courage to admit your past mistakes, and for your untiring effort to restore your message. Amy, you are very wrong in the sense that you stated that I don;t follow your threads, I do intently! That is why I have said that you haven;t achieved a lot of success, not from your efforts, but by the actions of your husband. I am aware of the post about the liplock, great for you! Perhaps its the turning point for greater things for you, and I certainly hope so. I was in fact referring to many of your pervious posts about your frustration about lack of progress, thus is why I posted what I did. If I offended you, I am truly sorry, I didn't want that. RCR, I sure wouldn't want you to look like me! LOL That is a curse worse than MLC! Am I negative, well, I suppose I am in a way, I guess anyone who looks at something with a less than rosey outlook can be cast that way, again, I don't mean to be, I am working on it. Am I bitter? Well, again, in a way I suppose I am, again, I am working on it, I feel bad for my kids, I guess I am a little selfish in that sense, its tough to do it alone, especally when you are a man. Again, I never claimed to be the perfect person, I'm not, but I do believe that I am honest, even about myself. AMY, you asked why I still lurk. I feel that I have a lot to learn about people and relationships, you people help me do that with your situations and your insight, yours included AMY. I do have a great respect and admiration for your will to restore what was lost, I truly do admire you. I don;t look upon anyone here in a negative light, I hate the fact that everyone here has gone through such terrible tragedy in thier lives. I think its probably the most painfull thing anyone can go through. AMY, you also said I was a quitter by my own admission. Again, you are right if you measure that quality of someone who files for a divorce, but do remember this about me. My XW begged for children throughout our marriage, she couldn't concieve, my sister died of a drug overdose, I fought her H in the courts and got them, both children have a serious life threatening illness that requires a lot of medical care, she left me with them, instead of me giving them to someone else and making life a lot easier for myself, I choose to keep them and raise them as a single father working a job that takes up about 60 or more hours a week, and with very little outside help from my family. AMY, never believe that I am a quitter in life or don't stand up for what is right, I am a winner in many ways! Again, if I hurt feelings or offended someone, I am sorry.

[plentyhope]

Braveheart, I know you mean well. I agree with Amy that some of your comments may discourage people in standing for their M when theirs can be saved. We just don't know the outcome of other people's situations and it's "safer" to be positive in terms of setting the best stage for the best outcome. ~PH

[AmyC]

All right.

I take back the "quitter" remark.

And no, I don't measure the quality of someone by whether or not they file for divorce.

I don't recall reading about the children in your old threads, though. That's an awesome thing you are doing.

Just so you know, my post to you was the second time in 2 days that I have flipped my lid on this board over what I perceived to be "misleading" posts. It has been with concern for new people that may be reading. I don't know where that's coming from but I seem to be acutely aware of what our posts might be conveying to SOMEONE out there... So anyway, I apologize for reading more into your post than you meant to say. Thanks for your support of my sitch, which for the moment is in a deep freeze. I'm breaking out the bikini again tomorrow in an effort to "kick it up a notch" .

[Holly06]

Hey brave one,
Never take typed words on the internet THAT seriously,K?

I am starting to see the pattern that everyone brings with them their life experiences and wants to share their viewpoint as the one true vision.
Only problem is there are 1000 points of light.

Gotta love one another!
H.

[Rollercoasterider]

I liked the way AmyC said it

Don't discourage those that stand.
Their walk is not your walk.
If you can not lift people up and give them hope while they struggle to find their own way and their own answers, I don't really know why you'd still come here

Discouraging...yes, that explains it better than mere pessimism.
I'm sorry, but your posts are discouraging to newcomers who are fragile and not yet ready to hear this.

Those of us who have responded have been around awhile and can handle it. But in my first weeks after the bomb I didn't know that this sort of thing happened...and even more, that if it did happen there was Hope.

Look at newbie posts...one of the most common lines is "am I crazy for...doing this/wanting him back..." and an expression of no hope. They aren't in despair yet...merely doubt. But it is pretty amazing when you look at the behaviour of these MLCer. AmyC was pretty far gone...and she came back.

Standers Stand in Faith that there MLCer will return amidst not mere doubt of others, but amidst the MLCer admantly claiming hatred for us or at least not being in-love with us. We Stand while they claim engagement to another and show the OW off to the family.

I know you aren't saying we shouldn't do that. You aren't like those friends who tell us to kick'em to the curb. You are giving what you feel is support. You feel more power to us.

We have to be realistic in the sense that there is an overwhelming chance that our marriages are over for good. I am basing this statement on what I see posted here.

You want posters to know the reality...as YOU see it. There isn't an overhwelming chance of anything really. That statement basically said you can try, but its's not going to work. So the pained newbie will then figure why try? and give up before stepping in the game.

Throwing in the towel is fine if the person has made that choice knowing what is out there. That is knowing what it is to fight (or really, Stand by not fighting). Giving up before that...there's no towel to throw in. The towel implies sweat and effort.

What is truth? You say statistics support you. Statistics support generalities. The 50% divorce rate is not about the chance of reconciliation. It has nothing to do with it. It's an overall figure of how many marriages end in divorce. But the statistics can be broken down into groups. Those who marry before 25 have higher divorce rates than those who marry after 25. Those whose parents divorced have hgher divorce rates.

There are so many factors to consider when looking at stats.

Okay...I wrote all of the above over an hour ago and then got dizzy or nauseous from the meds. Took a break.

I want to write more...but maybe I should just post what I've got and come back in bits...still feel a bit dizzy.

But Braveheart...I think some of the first posters may have been offended...but I don't think they considered you hostile.

And as for Amy...I thought your post was very well-thought out and rational...no flipping.

I searched the histry for my post about stats or something...couldn't find it...long search may have contributed to dizziness. But I think that was where I was heading...thoughts about stats. Valentine said it well...and in fact one of the only posts I found inthe history was something I wote to her...close to what I was seeking, but exactly it.

So more later...perhaps tomorrow.

HUGS,
RCR

[NDDT]

I am a newcomer. I am hurting and discouraged. But reading this thread actually has given me a bit of hope. I am frustrated and angry. I dont see my daughter every day now, and I miss her. I miss what me and my wife at one time I had. Now all she remembers is that she was miserable every day. That I made her miserable.
Why dont she remember some of the good times that we had? Maybe I need to get down on my knees and pray? I have only been seperated for about 7 weeks now and the situation keeps getting worse. Today I felt like throwing in the towel for a time..... Not yet. I still got a lot of work to do. I will not give up yet.

Thanks to all of you.

[cire2]

Love the posts! Socrates would be proud.

In the journey of the MLCer could it be possible it is meant for us and not them? Maybe a marriage needs to end for the correct outcome to be realized?

Are'nt all of our actions, as humans, based on selfishness? We act and react the only way we can based on our experiences. Knowing how we "may" feel given any circumstance drives actions. Given the same circumstances more than once with a different decision being made is based on how "we" react to perceived outcome, not anyone else.

To stand or not is what we determine for us individually. In the road of life, that is unique to everyone, our stories will be written by what we can't know. So we make the best of it with such limited abilities.

Does anyone really think or know what piece of the puzzle they are? Some might be a corner and some of us are just that pale blue sky. But the picture is never complete without all the pieces.

Success stories are great! I might add the failures, (in our eyes only), may be pretty great too! We just need to accept that we're not painting the picture.

I applaud everyone who strives to become better.

IMHO cire

[AmyC]

Never take typed words on the internet THAT seriously,K?

Not sure if you were speaking to me here, Holly, but as I have written, it's not ME I was concerned with after I read bravehearts first post.

To clarify, this is a site that, whether it was intended or not, people find when they are searching desperately for SOME WAY - ANY WAY - to SAVE their marriage. So this site acts like a life preserver for someone drowning. Someone lurking, or clicking for the first time could read a post like that and, in their already compromised & devastated frame of mind, take that information for the gospel and lose ALL hope.

As I have also said, I don't know why I am so sensitive to that at the moment. Believe me, I think back to some of my own posts and hope to God no newbies read them because they sure weren't all filled with strength and scripture!

I don't know what's going on.

I think I'll go "dark" here for a while myself.


Peace!

[Livinontheedge]

Hello all, been a while since I posted, and I only read ocasionally now days, this one caught my eye, I have been exposed to MLC land for about three and a half years now, my XW did all the usual, I was a true stander and I am a true believer in MLC. my Divorce has been final for two years in August and my XW got remarried to the dirtbag she had the affair with last weekend, I have for a while thought of writing a similar post to what Braveheart has said.

I think I understand what he is trying to say, and I don't think it shows disrespect for standers, for me at this point in all of this, I have some huge regrets about the way I handled things, and a lot of that from things I learned on this site, I think this is a very special place, filled with very special people, in the darkest hours of my wreck I spent many hours here reading, learning and took great comfort in the fact that I wasn't the only one in history this has happened to, which is how I felt when it started.

My regrets come from the fact that in the beginning I read Hearts Blessing and the six stages and convinvced my self that was exacly how my sitch was going to go, I just had to show LOVE an be P A T I E N T, give her space, work on myself and everything would be fine, even if I had to wait 2 or 3 years, I did show her love, respect, gave her space, I was patient, I worked on myself, had an excellent C that I saw for about a year and a half, I read a Library of books, and in the end I am a changed person, and a better person by far than I was before, but I stayed so positive that I would one day be telling my success story on this sight, I spent a long time in denial that it might not happen, even with all the zero expectations advice given here, all the while I was being positive, my W was running around openly having an affair, slamming me every chance she got, mad at the world because everyone from her family, my family, her oldest best friends, my friends, our common friends, and everyone she knew was on my side.

I guess my point to this rambling is, new people here are so fragile and so confused as to whats happening to them, MLC is so offensive, so agressive, and such a very rude awakening, I think its so admirabe to stand for your marriage, I sure did, and so awsome to be understanding to their condition, and to learn all you can about whats happening to them, but I hope for everyone's sake we don't give so much hope that in the end, its another hurt to go through and another let down, that theres not a happy ending to this nightmare at least not in all situations.

I have heard and read many statistics from many view points through these last few years, I don't believe any one has an accurate stat, and I don't think its possible to find an acurate statistict to recconciliations after MLC, or the desire of post MLC'rs to recconcile, but I will tell you what I have been told seen and heard.

When my sitch first started I had a bookkeeper who is also a friend of mine and my X, she had a MLC, her and her husband divorced, and had since remmairied, and have been happily so for many years, she was the first to start my MLC education, she ran off with a dirtbag, biker, began using drugs, got addicted, lived the high life for a while, had her crash, and returned through some friends to her husband, and tells everyone she has the worlds best marriage and is the very happy now, I asked her one night to read the six stages and see if she agreed, she said she didn't need to read it she had lived it.

I worked for the Fire Dept. in my home town for many years, my first Capt. had a W who left him to to have an affair with her Boss, they moved to another state to live together, I can't remember how long the affair lasted but it was a while, I don't know if they got Divorced and remmaried or stayed married, but I remember it was a mess, they have been back together for about ten years and are on their way to happily evere after.

My parents best friends were a couple that had been married since they were kids, when I was about twelve or thirteen they split up, he opened a CB shop during the radio craze and had a hired a guy from out of town to run the shop, his W had an affair with him and he ended up living in there house, they Divorced for several years, and eventually got back together and remarried and are still married to this day, she had an MLC and my Mom said that during that period she thought her friend had lost her mind.

I also had a step Uncle, who I had known all my life, a mans man he had been a Mormon Bishop, worked at the same job most of his life, been a devoted family man, a guy who you would have told your kids to pattern their life after, he was almost sixty years old when his W came home and found out he had taken their life savings out of the bank and left with his new miss woderful, after a couple of years he came home, and they worked it out.

My XW's Dad had an MLC, ran of with his secretary, my X caught him and told her mom, they split up, Divorced, she got Cancer and died shortly after, A a couple of years later we were working in the yard, he called my XW and cryed for a couple of hours telling her how sorry he was for all he'd done and told her if her mom was still alive he wouldn't want to be any place but home with her.

I know of several other MLC's I've had the pleasure of watching, they left and never came back, at least not yet, I have a good friend whos W is MLC, or was, after six years of this he has finally gave up and filed, she is now maddly in love with him again, and totaly broken hearted he wants a Divorce, this after her second affair.

As for me this has been the learning experience of a lifetime, I am better, smarter about this, and finally at peace with this like never before, this leaves a scar, but the bleeding does stop.

As for my XW'a wedding, I have only heard from one person who attended, which is my friends W who is MLC, she told my friend my X looked really bad, she said it looked like X didn't even comb her hair and had no makeup on at all, and seemed totally miserable, they got Married at the house me and X bought, and I spent four years remodling and landcaping, the guy she had the affair with and has now married has done three terms in prison for drugs, has I.V. drug user Hepititis, has been diagnosed, with Obsesive/Compolsive disorder, and is so debilotated by his medication, he almost can't function as a normal person.

I wish everyone here the best, you are the best for being here and opening your minds to all the posibilities life holds, To those of you who save your Marriages, I applaud your dedication, to those of you who don't, I want you to know you can still be happy, and I'll leave you with two of my favorite sayings, The thing I have learned about LIFE is it goes on, and "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change", best of luck to all of you, regardless of what happens, in you sitch, your special for trying, and special for trying to understand and show compasion for the Alian that MLC, creates, see you at the top. Livin.

[bright 2 morro]

I have a few thoughts that I would like to share. I am fairly new to this so please bare with me. I have read a lot about MLC and the ways in which MLCers act and say things. The fact that they almost always have OP in life while gone. Ok, I get all of that.

I grasped this concept as what my H is going through. I have also left other options open in my mind. DBing, I think, has to do with other options as well as the MLC.

Other options this could be in my mind are:

1. communication issues in the marriage-Maybe they are not in an MLC but got frustrated with trying (all be it maybe the wrong ways). They feel that they have tried and tried and never got anywhere. But they were not really communicating their problems effectively. Therefore, they leave because they feel they are out of options.

2. WAS

3. MLC

4. Victim of circumstance - Maybe he is in some sort of depression or other things in mind and someone takes advantage of the vulnerability.

I think the reasons I question whether or not my H is going through a mid-life crisis is because I am not 100% sure. I can see that in all of these situations they would still feel many of the same ways. Guilt, frustration, anger, overwhelmed. I think the only way for us to find out the truth is by getting them to open up to us. And by working on ourselves to change the bad, negative, criticalness etc. We are allowing them to come forward and try to explain to us. Loving from a distance. A large percentage of the issues in marriage these days is Communication. If we really listen to our Spouses (or think backto what they said) we can try to put ourselves in there shoes and ask ourselves "Would we like to be treated this way".

I also think that if we make the change to address what they are in a way asking us to change. And they see these changes then they are more apt to start assessing what they did wrong and try to change that.

But there are many ideas here that can help in all of the options the same way.

So I guess as an newcomer I try to not take everything as if it is black or white.

I have made some changes already and I notice a difference in how we are communicating. It is a whole lot more friendly. Someone told me yesterday that if I can earn back his friendship then my chances of more later on are better.

I am not saying that it is going to work out but I have three kids with the man. I have to make sure that we can get along and make good decisions about them together.

I know that my H is already having issues with not being with the kids. Maybe that is a start and maybe family counciling is also a start.

Baby steps.

I am starting to ramble on and on. I am sorry, I guess I just wanted to give you my perspective on MLC. Do I believe in it yes, but I also believe that this could be many different things that have the same response. The only way to get it worked out is by taking positive steps.

mimi