Guys, I think it was NOP and Honeypott who said that my wife's WORDS were good, but not to put too much weight in them.
Her ACTIONS are that she's totally withdrawn emotionally from me, totally shut down, and seemingly not interested one whit in working on our marriage.
She continues to have contact with OM, and it seems to be accelerating. No proof of PA yet, but she's hiding things.
My sister told me today that "God will break you, before He'll fix you."
I'm feeling pretty broken tonite. I leave for Chicago tomorrow for four days, and I'm not at all sure that my wife will be faithful to me while I'm gone, and I have a gnawing feeling that she's going to ask for a separation when I get back.
Positives? Positives??? My wife is -- at BEST -- having an EA with a man 17 years her junior, and he's not 1/2 what I have to offer her. She's flirting, texting, phoning, and she's about to break our family apart.
Please tell me the positives in that, because I'm missing them.
You are right about the actions. When actions match words, then you are at least approaching truth.
When her actions do not match her words, then, regardless of its cause - confusion, whatever, the result is a lie.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
". I am in agreement with others that you might want to switch gears from being SSM to an active DBer. "
Yes, well, that would be the best bet, regardless of how he handles dealing with the EA. But, it is not to be, not yet. Perhaps when W is totally emotionally D and the great hope you and I BOTH see for Choc is past, he will pick up the book.
Choc, the draft email you wrote is a nightmare, again, incredibly self-destructive.
Choc is doing a lot right. He did NOT send the letter. He is treating his wife with respect and kindness. He is not being grabby/needy or desperate.
He DOES have weak moments like anyone else in similar situations.
I am curious as to what you think he will get from other areas of the bulletin board.
Do you think that we are misleading him or sending him the wrong signals?
We have encouraged him in many "DB Approved" methods. We have NOT encouraged him to be a doormat, or to just accept his wife's inappropriate behavior as a "matter of course". Is that what you disagree with?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quit worrying about "maybe's". Armour up with information. Be prepared to calmly respond. Remember this: if she wants a separation she's quite welcome to leave! You aren't doing the "leaving" or "separating" so if she wants space she's quite welcome to find some and...your attitude? "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!". In other words, express your preference not to separate but open the door and tell her she's quite welcome to leave and it's unknown how long that door will remain unlocked or have a new hostess waiting on the other side to answer.
Live life! Have fun! It's about you and the kids. You ARE the family she's leaving and don't let her give you any grief. If she wants out then SHE leaves. Period!
Hope your trip goes well. Maybe you'll get smiled at by a cute stewardess. Always made my day brighter when travelling, anyway.
I feel that you are being uneccesarily harsh to Choc. I don't know what your situation is, perhaps you have had to deal with DB/WAS/SSM/EA/PA in the past. But sometimes it is not easy to "do the right thing" (whatever that truly may be) while in the middle of the situation. Emotions run high, especially for emotional people like me and Choc, and berating someone for being emotional is not helpful. Can you see how your aggressive MO is contrary to your own advice to him on how he should deal with his W? You have valid points, but they are lost in the midst of words like "nightmare" and basically implying that he will be responsible for his D if he doesn't read DR/DB.
JMHO of course Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
That was great, great stuff -- I'm archiving that -- and thanks, cuz I needed to hear that right now.
I'm pretty much in that place, not to worry.
I am just some final, irrefutable evidence away from confrontation and exposure. It will be nasty, NASTY stuff, especially the latter, but it needs to be done.
And you're right -- the choice will then be clearly HERS.
I cannot "change" her. I cannot "improve" her. I cannot, with elegent prose, heartfelt emotion or even steely manliness, reengage her back into our marriage.
Only SHE can do that, and it can't be done while she's allowing (and returning) the flirtations and the deception of someone else, which I will point out to her.
Everyone, I will be off for Chicago in about an hour, and will only have periodic internet access while there. I WILL be checking in, though, and would very much appreciate your thoughts, encouragement, and PRAYERS.
It's going to be a long, ugly haul . . . I think I best add some Kevlar to my jacket.
I agree that Choc is doing a lot right – I think his M has a great chance and that once his W buys back into the M, he will do wonderfully. The trick is for him to back off enough for W to get to that point.
Posters on other areas of the bulletin board are dealing with similar problems of trying to save an M in which one person has pretty much left the M. Posters in SSM are generally in Ms in which both parties are still committed to the M. Things that work wonderfully in those situations are toxic in Choc's sitch. The posters in other areas have a different perspective that comes from a lot of painful history on how to deal with a WAS. Just like people don't get what it is like to live in a SSM until they do, people don't get what will work with a WAS until they go through it. Choc needs some 2x4s of the right brand. I think Choc would get a lot of insights, understanding, and begin to develop more appreciation for where his W is and compassion for her if he would read DR and post in one of the other areas with people who are trying to let go of the old M and start a new one. People in SSM are trying to improve their Ms. Choc seems to pretty clearly be in a position of needing to let go of the old M, give his W the opportunity to want to join him in building a great new M, and then doing the tough work of building a new M. If choc's W isn't yet totally emotionally D from him, his current tactics are pushing her in that direction.
Look, if someone had a somewhat stable M that was suffering from an absence of intimacy, I'd suggest that they try posting here. The LRT, for instance, is not likely to turn a SSM into a hotbed of great sex. Suggesting Choc post elsewhere is not an insult to the wonderful caring people here. Choc is simply in a different place than they are.
I take it your last paragraph was sarcastic. Being a doormat is very unhealthy. If you read my posts to other DBers, I urge them NOT to be doormats. Walking on eggshells and being a doormat are two good ways to destroy any chance an M has. I see no reason for choc to accept his W's behavior as a matter of course. He should set a clear boundary that works for him and enforce it. Whether or not he shares that boundary with W explicitly with W is up to him. But, obsessing about the EA is NOT going to help. Trying to shame and guilt W back into the M is not going to lead to a healthy R. I have no idea what you are suggesting Choc do as far as the EA as you are making your suggestions offline, but I think a lot of the advice you give online is very helpful. Choc needs to quit needing stuff from his W and GAL in a major way.
Instead, Choc is ALL ABOUT HIS W. I can't imagine that she feels anything but smothered by his behavior right now. She can't breath, let alone get the kind of space she has been pretty darn direct about needing right now.
