My heart has been completely torn apart

[I_Surrender]

So does this make us insane?!?!?

No it makes us people of integrity, value and good conscience, willing to deal with the hurt and pain to hopefully, selflessly allow our spouses to see the light. Perfect people, perhaps not, but selfless, yes.

I am in a confusing place, myself, how much do I want to give up on? She asks for surprise flower, letters, cards, jewelery etc. When did I ever get a surprise birthday party, even?

Anyway I feel I really need to decide what it is, that I want to receive in this relationship as well. Do I want to forgo my dreams of a perfect marriage, for the comfort of simply being together, and financially stable. Does she want to work her a$$ off for as long as it takes to make this work, and win back my trust?

[Yoyowife]

IS,
We do give and give. It is so normal to want something in return. In Divorce Remedy it says right now we have to be the one doing all of the work. We just have to decide how long we can give it all.

[I_Surrender]

Well I think I made one positive step. Counselor says that I need to make friends (my homework for the week)
Big challenge, think I made a connection, maybe we'll go for a coffee next week.
I talked about this with W, telling her about my homework. (W even stated proudly that she had friends, and I didn't) So she agrees that I should make friends.
I didn't say anything about my plans to go out next week. I'll just gently ease it along.

I have a feeling that she might have a problem with it, though, partly because she is used to having me 100% on her schedule and because this friend is a female.

I am still in an uncertain place. I am trying to think of W as a good friend right now. I talked to her about her counseling a little and my feelings, fears yesterday.

I ask myself "Is this a crossroad right now? Do I need to make a change in my life's direction?"

I talked to an internet friend I have had for about 9-10 years. She went through a troubled relationship and describes their marrage as so different now. They survived, but the couple who was once madly in love are no more.

I would not care to live like that.

Have a nice weekend everyone. I am busy making mental plans to deal with the financial hardship, should the D come to be reality. I need to be mentally prepared for this.

I did talk with W last night about the finanial reality of D. Telling her what she already knew, that I may have to give her spousal support (inside I disagree with this since I didn't have the PA) child support, should our youngest stay with her (60% chance he would be with me and the other 2 children, but it's up to him)
Then I slipped in the bit about the fact that on her part, I would be entitled to half of her company pension... she didn't say anything. I don't know if she new that or had not considered that.

[I_Surrender]

Journal;
Well another weekend of downs, ups and downs. Friday was okay, Saturday we were both feeling our emotions, Sunday was a little better, many positives. I took her to test ride a couple of mountain bikes, then we went mall shopping, she helped me pick some shorts and we each helped each other pick out some summer clothes, she bought me a shirt. This was until I was talking to her late last night.

I was puzzled about a phone number I rec'd on my cell (out of area) and was discussing that with her. She then said, "wait go back" on my call display. "Why did you call *****, you never told me you called *****" ( mutual couple/friend(s) ) This is the person she confessed the PA to a couple weeks ago.
Yes I did not tell her that I called this person. I needed someone to talk to, and they are very supportive of both of us (not picking sides.)

I should have told her, I suppose, I don't know. She thinks that I am keeping secrets from her, and probably thinks that I am trying to make enemies of her and this couple (I am not.)

It looks like a big bump in the road.

I went to bed upset/crying, she was angry. I was still quite upset this morning. I saw that, as usual, there was a sandwich made for my lunch in the fridge. I did not know if she made it before or after our fight. She was sleeping in for an appointment, but I decided to go to her side of the bed and give her a goodbye kiss, anyway. I just did not want to leave and keep the fight going.

I am really afraid to ask her some of the key relationship questions this week, does she still love me? does she want to be married? does she find me attractive? will she work to restore my trust, no matter how long it takes? will she never again seek out another man?

I suppose I am confronting my vulnerability. Maybe that means in my mind I am reconsidering my feeling of D as an only option?

[I_Surrender]

So today's Journal
Last night we went to a concert. On the walk from the car to the concert, W resisted holding hands. While the opening act was on, W looked tense so I gave her a neck, upper back massage. During the stage change, I asked her about her work. She talked quite a bit about her job, stresses etc. On the way home from the concert she did want to hold hands.

This morning I get the feeling that the goodbye kiss was a "half open door." So anyway, we'll see.

This will be a big week for me, with counseling tomorrow after work.
I have emailed a possible new platonic female friend, who I will meet sometime this week. I do not know how W will react, but I will be honest, tell her, and let the cards fall where they may.
I most definitely to not seek a "new relationship" so I don't know if the female friend concept is a good idea, for me.
I am also planning on hooking up with some male acquaintances, to see if I can make some friends.

In counseling, I hope to find out a little more about what I want in a future relationship. There is a wish list which I have, for my ideal partner. When I say ideal, I don't mean perfect, because I am not perfect. There are just some serious things in our relationship which I would hope could be different.
I can count on one hand the amount of times W has initiated sex in the last 10 years. We did talk about it at our previous counseling. Nothing has changed.
I would love W to be a more sexual person, as I am more sexual.
I would love W to initiate being a more kind & loving person. I don't know if that is her personality, so I don't think I can ask that of her.
I would love W to be a less angry soul, and be more positive about life. Again, this may just be who she is.
I fear being with an angry person when I get older. I want life to be a pleasurable experience. I am sometimes in a cranky mood, but I have learned to take it easy, and look for a more positive take on daily situations.
I have some health issues. I need someone who is supportive of these. I don't want someone to baby me or to be patronizing. I just need them to understand some days there are special coping methods I use to live day to day. This is a difficult issue for W. Again it may simply be a personality trait.
I don't know if she loves me the way I love her. I think I am a security blanket for her, and she needs that. I get a sense that she loves me less.

I have begun to look at how poor I will be financially if we separate. I feel that I have to get a complete grasp on this. Is it worth losing all what we have together? Do I forgo dreams to accept shortcomings in what I perceive our relationship to be.

I have decided that I most certainly have issues which may have contributed to W wanting to stray. I will be committed to improving myself and learn from this.

Possibly she is in MLC and menopause, and seeks the reassurance from the world that she is still attractive. I really don't know. I am concerned about this. I get a real sense, that although she is trying very hard to not contact other men or OM on her cell phone at night etc. that she still longs for this.
She has anger for me which boils under the surface, because I talked to our older two children about me wanting a D. Still, I perceive that she is an unhappy, unfulfilled soul. Perhaps she believes that I have taken something from her.

Even though I am not sure, I think that this time around I need to be more aware than ever about my senses and feelings of where both of us are in the relationship. I feel that if I had stuck to my guns in our first counseling session, we would not be here right now. I feel that if I had paid attention to signals, I should have known what was going on.

Anyway like I said, a big week, this week.

[I_Surrender]

W is talking more about moving out. She seems to be in a very conflicted place right now. She is furious with me for talking to our older two (adult) children. I talked to my mom, who suggested we get back together (she is very compassionate) and hopes that I not D.

I had to get an STD test. The doctor asked why, I told him, what am I supposed to say? Lie?

Sure I was emotional when I told our older two kids. Probably if I was calm, I would not have. How could I be non-emotional and clearly thinking?

I care a lot about how she is feeling, but that does not change what I feel either. I sense confusion, anger. Perhaps some of you folks can enlighten me as to other possible issues.

I think she is in a place where she blames me, for all the bad things that have happened to her.

One of her email comments " ... I would not have been so stupid as to have given you a disease..."
I think to myself, what a bogus comment... condoms break, her OM has likely had multiple partners since his D. A condom is not a fail safe device!

So what should I do, be patronizing, kind, go out of my way? Or should I disconnect? Let her go if she wants to?

[Dr LOve]

hey surrender

I have No advise to offer except that you are not alone. Most of your sitch is like mine except that nobody except my Wife the OM and myself know about the affair. It is hard to resist holding hands and such but I want to so bad. But I am trying to wait for that day I wife reaches out first to hold my hand. sounds like your wife has done this.There is still hope.
Hang in there...

Husband

[I_Surrender]

I tried talking about her email, last night before bed, she fell asleep. She was all chipper this morning. I was kind of distant.

The problem I am facing, is a large part of me wants her out, and wants a D. I have placed these feelings aside, and decided to take the time to go to counseling and be careful in deciding what I want.

I will most surely miss her, if she leaves temporarily or permanenently. I don't know if it is an idle threat to try and get me to "want her not to leave" or genunine.

Very conflicted thoughts today. The part of me which wants her to go, is already thinking about preparing the house to sell, de junking, working on a basic separation agreement, and almost 'hopes' she will hook up w OM as well.

I guess I am looking at this as the beginning of an end, in some way.

It is not to say this will not hurt It will HURT. In my mind these relationship issues have been going on for 3 years since her 1st EA. I am ready for it to end, to stop the hurting.

Her whole email is about blaming me for everything that is happened, there is not a hint of considering her part in this relationship. Maybe C will help her tonight.

[I_Surrender]

Journalling continues

Well I kind of caved and didn't go dark. I replied to her email, using some of the things/techniques I have learned here.
She views my getting an std test talking to GP, talking to my mom, kids as retaliation, against her. In fact I did not consider her feelings, as I was so darn emotional. Sure maybe I wasn't thinking clearly, but my thoughts were not to hurt her.
Besides she's already had an EA, that my daughter discovered, given up on counseling twice, she should have been thinking of the possible ramifications of a PA should it be discovered.

She implies that her unhappiness was to do with me. Maybe I could have been better, but we had just came back from an incredible trip to Mexico, which was very loving, a lot of fun. I had musicians serenade her at dinner one night.
I think that she had blinders on. She has gone through about 3 plastic surgeries, and I think seeks verification of that beauty from other men. (I told her that she doesn't have to do that for me to think that she's beautiful)

Anyway I answered her email saying that if she wants OM then she has to decide that (don't let me stop you) and just not pretend that she wants to be with me, if she does not, or is unhappy.
So she has C tonight, I told her to try and start working on that, then we can move forward once she decides her path.

She commented, that she was faithful for 22 years, and doesn't that count for something?
I told her that (and this is honest) if someone told me just as we met, that I would be together with her for 31 years and most of them great years, amazing years, but the last 3 would be turmoil and emotional hell, would I do it again?
I said to her, and say to you, that YES I would do it again.
Even knowing that D is so close to what I want right now.

I guess what I am saying, I could never live with the hurt again, that I have lived through twice in 3 years. At this time i really want to close this chapter in my life and move to another book.
I don't know if that makes sense?

[Dr LOve]

Surrender -

What ever you do when dealing With the W do not say she is wrong about her feelings. They are just that. HER FEELINGS. You could say I sorry you feel that way. Or well I feel (or felt) But do not attack her feelings. If you want her to go somewhere or do something don't say you should go to the C. Ask her how would she feel about going to the C. It gives her power. Sometimes when some one is TOLD to do something they won't just because it was not their decision

Husband