Madonna/Whore Part 3

[COG]

And just for that smart remark, I won't give you any details either - LOL

RATS!!

[COG]

Heywyre,

Nothing like a little debate to get things fired up huh COG

You've got that right. Good debate, congrats, you gals won. It's all good!

Love,

COG

[Heywyre]

We won? YAY

Now, does your wife know how sexy that is to have a man concede? (even if he really doesn't mean it)

[Greeneyedlass]

COG, at least you're good natured when it comes to a debate...and heck, I might have conceded, but I was holding out for you to call me sunshine! LOL

[Heywyre]

conceding because he called you sunshine, men letting the women win - what is this world coming to?

[Heywyre]

Ok, so here's the update regarding the evil cell bill.

I was waiting patiently to see if H would say something. He has to work tonight and didn't get home until late this afternoon so eat, clean-up and get to bed was the first priorities. He did say yesterday that he would take care of it "tomorrow or the next day" so I thought I would let it slide until tomorrow.

However, he was just finishing getting cleaned up and said "I just have to do my teeth and then we can do that cell bill"

However, when I/we went online there was some discrepancey regarding his PIN and it said he had to call customer service so he said he would take care of it tomorrow.

So, although I still don't have the information, it seems he understands the importance of it. I hope he follows through (fingers crossed)

All is well in Heywyre land

[fearless]

HeyWyre and GEL,

Just to clarify for me: I don't know anything DIRECTLY about the Madonna/WHore issue however my understanding from you two and what I have read is that while it may SEEM similar to the almost stereotypical mother/father roles that many married couples find themselves, it is very different. Especially in that it really isn't based on how you behave but how your H's perceive you. And just by the fact that they married you, you are by default a "Madonna." Like Blackfoot commented elsewhere that GEL's previous boyfriends would not have considered her a Madonna. But then again that is the VERY POINT isn't it?

Now for COG's concern, this doesn't excuse either one of you from having contributions to issues in the marriage. However I would think, and it will be interesting to hear the ST's opinion, that in a true Madonna/Whore syndrome what you do or are (as a wife) has very little to do with how your H reacts to you because it is ALL due to his perception rather than reality, right?

As an analogy, I would see comparing a couple dealing with the Madonna/Whore issue to a couple who has slid into the wife being mommy to the kids and extended it toward her husband as comparing an anorexic's (SP??)body image trouble to a typical woman's body image problem. Both are issues to be dealt with but the anorexic is much mroe complicated and more deeply affected.

Make any sense at all??

Also I understand COG's point but I think heywyre's sitch is not the same as many that are dealing with Walk Aways. Again not so much because of the M/W issue as that her H is NOT walking out the door and has committed to the marriage. Heywyre, IMO, seems to just be taking advantage of the great situation she is in and pushing her H for more transparency which is NORMAL for a couple RECOVERING from an affair.

Anyway, sorry if I am beating a dead horse but I just want to make sure I understand the sitch. I see the M/W issue as separate from a WAS issue although they can and could have overlapped.

[Heywyre]

Fearless

Absolutely the M/W sitch is TOTALLY different from a walk-away

I never had any problem whatsoever concerning sex and/or relationships before my H so this was a total blow to the self esteem for sure.

My H has told me many, many times over (and so has the psychologist) that it is NOT my fault and has absolutely NOTHING to do with me. However, that doesn't mean there isn't anything I can do to help him but first, he has to want to be helped and, hopefully, that's where we are at this point in the game

The difference between a WAS and someone with M/W complex is they don't get involved sexually with someone they would marry, period!! So, if my H was to get fed up and walk-away he definitely would not be seeking out the OW for marriage or to live with. It would be purely for sexual use and nothing more. He looks at women "like that" as dirty.

He cannot put the two, sex and love, together. He sees them as two totally separate entities. We have talked about it extensively and he just can't wrap his head around the thought of "using your wife for that purpose" - he thinks of it as the lowest form of disrespect you can show your wife.

[Greeneyedlass]

Fearless,

Yes, this is exactly true

However I would think, and it will be interesting to hear the ST's opinion, that in a true Madonna/Whore syndrome what you do or are (as a wife) has very little to do with how your H reacts to you because it is ALL due to his perception rather than reality, right?

A major part of my frustration before I came to understand what my H was/is dealing with is that he would try to pigeon hole me into his version of what HE perceived a wife and mother SHOULD be, which in his mind is completely non-sexual, with the exception of conception and then it's just get the job done, no lingering and having fun.

[LustForLife]

so now your H is transparent, you are secure, but he see's you as his mother and can not have sex with you. I'm no PHd but I can tell you there IS a connection between the way you treat your H, the things you require of him, and the way he see's you in a sexual sense. These things can not be separated in a man's mind. You can not mother him, and expect him to see you as a lover. Mothering in this sense meaning, he does'nt always have to check in but only when you want him too, he is not to be completely trusted, he needs supervision, etc.

I think COG is making some valid points. Maybe it is because he is a man and can easily see how being supervised could be considered a "mothering" behavior and NOT sexy. So is it ultimately going to fail in the long run? I am glad GEL and Heywyre are finding some peace with the approach. But I do sometimes question the long-term success.
My H has a similar view as COG I think. He has stated flat out that he does not want us to have that type of R/M. If people are going to do something like cheat, there is always a way to do it. All the monitoring in the world will not prevent that.
LFL