I'm glad you've taken it upon yourself to judge and decide that people have a certain type of idea you find needs to be shaken up. Yet if this is the case, then you just contradicted yourself when you said there are no right ideas.
You assume that I think my POV is the "right" one. It is just my POV. But that does not mean the other POVs are right either.
I can soooo understand where she's coming from in much of what she says and personally, I think she communicated beautifully with you in her response.
I know that feeling of being lost like she's going through, of never really knowing who "I" am, I think this is something she's struggling with. I went from my parents house, to my 1st marriage, almost right into my 2nd marriage. When I left my 2nd marriage I didn't know how to be GEL, I didn't know who I was because I had been so busy being someone else's wife or daughter, but never just GEL.
You know this new exploration of hers could be a really good thing for your marriage, and a way for you two to grow together as well....if you can be supportive of her in it (not assuming you aren't either), to the extent of course there are no other men involved.
Oh and FWIW, I don't think the e-mail you sent was a bad idea at all....it resulted in some valuable information.
You assume that I think my POV is the "right" one. It is just my POV. But that does not mean the other POVs are right either.
Why would you argue for your own POV you feel is wrong?
And this was my point, anyway:
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But when a person(s) declines, repeatedly, to argue? This is to what I was referring.This is where my observation comes from that you don't seem to recognize another's POV or preference as valid or worthy of respect... because all you do is continue to push and push and push and prod. Which, of course, is well within your right. I personally see it as disrespectful.
So it wasn't really a matter of being right or wrong that I was honing in on.
I really liked her letter Choco. Heck, I could have written some of that myself. The key is to find a balance between her "space" and also working on reconnecting as H and W. That is where my H and I are now and it really has been more effective than anything else we have tried. I can still have my friends, and career, and interests while building a better M with him. It seems as though your W wants that too. The OM issue is definitely getting in the way of her reconnecting with you so I still think addressing that is a good thing. Maybe she is fearful that she will not be able to maintain her newfound independence with you as her H. I think of that sometimes myself. It's like you get into this codependent R with your spouse and it's hard to see the two of you together any other way. But it can be done Choco. Keep trying. Don't give up. LFL
Wow Choc! This is a great reply from Mrs Choc. This is should really be music to your ears. She is not saying she wants to blow off the M - she has a sense of her responsibilities and a sense of family and of history with you. She just wants to grow as a person and that's great. The old saying "if you love someone let them go" is very true in your sitch. That is what you MUST do.
Before I read as far as her reply I was thinking of saying to you that you should not push her for honesty. Honesty is not something she is really able to give you right now. In the worst case scenario (which I don't think this is) the honest answer might be "I'm completely done with this M". Now that is not something she will ever say until she really is done with the M. If she feels like there is a 0.5% of a chance that she is not done with the M then she cannot be honest about feeling done.
There is honesty that you really can't be honest about if you want to keep a R intact.
But now you have her reply and it is clear that she is not done with the M. She's as confused as you are Choc.
This is a hard road you are travelling and I feel for you. Take care
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I agree with the others. I see nothing in her message that jumps out at me and screams “I am trying to leave you for another man.” Nothing at all. OTOH, you COULD read it that way if you really wanted to, in fact you could read it lot of different ways.
One thing that I did see is that she is confused about what you want and why you are so anxious. She is trying to figure YOU out and I think that if she can see where you stand, she will be able to determine where she stands.
Look at this from her POV. For years you have been shut down to her. As she starts on a new career and begins to feel independent and good about herself, you start pushing to improve the M. What gives? Assume for a moment that she is really NOT having an affair (as incredulous as that may seem to some people), but rather searching for direction on her career. She may not have paid much attention to your questions about whether she is having an affair, so your anxiety may not make any sense to her at all.
You might think about telling her at some point exactly what you are seeing and what you are concerned about, that you suspect she is having an affair and that you are worried. That might turn on the light bulb in her head to understand where you are coming from and let her know what she can do to show the effort you are looking for.
This is where my observation comes from that you don't seem to recognize another's POV or preference as valid or worthy of respect... because all you do is continue to push and push and push and prod.
Funny, that’s pretty much how I feel on this board. There are some things that seem so obvious to me, but because I see things through a different lens than the DB lens so many use here, I think everyone would rather just blow me off. What I hear is that people just don’t “get it.” That might be due to blinders on their part or miscommunication on mine. So I reiterate. You and others think that is pushing.
So what does this all come down to? You got it – validation. The same validation you need, the Nops need, and anyone else on this board. What bothers you is not that I push my point, but that you feel I don’t validate another’s. That makes it part my problem and part your problem.
Why would you argue for your own POV you feel is wrong?
Now you’re trying to tick me off because I know that you know what I meant. That there is not one “right” POV does not mean that my or another other POV is wrong.
Choc, Hey there. Well, you got a response from her which is what you were after..how authentic or reliable it is remains to be seen. So I wouldn't place too much importance on it. You did a 180 and confronted a stressful situation and I hope it bears fruit for you. If not, oh well. One email will not end the world or your marriage. Perhaps you can keep an eye on things and assess whether it is worth repeating or not.
I wouldn't expect, at this point, that your W will want to participate in any way in the M or its repair. She's doing her own thing right now, as painful and selfish as that is. I'm sorry that you are going through that madness and frustration--I can't imagine what it feels like.
For the record, when I want something from my H (mostly attention) I ignore him. Historically, this is what I've done and how I inflict the most damage on him. (note that I haven't done this in longer than I can remember, I'm just giving you a peek into the diabolical female brain) Even if I didn't want something from him, but just wanted to make a point, I'd freeze him out. I'm like the Anti-Nag. I share this, I guess, to make a point that sometimes silence and freeze-outs mean something and sometimes they really don't. Maybe she's freezing you out because she no longer loves you and maybe she's doing it because she's a miserable human being and wants to have freedom to screw around. And I don't necessarily mean with any alleged OM....she's screwing around, if you ask me, by focusing too much on her appearance and letting the house go and tons of other signs that indicate that she's not playing with a full deck. Oh yeah, and OM too. All of these are escapes and right now you are the bad guy. She's making mental notes of what bothers you and storing it in her box of Marital Ammo. That's what I'd do anyway.
I'll tell you what MrH did one time that nipped it: He left the house and stayed gone all day, instead of hovering around me like a patient and loving lapdog ready to get shellacked with more of my ice. He came home late that night and I tried SO hard to not shout Where have you been?? but it only lasted for about 2 minutes, no joke. I *had* to know. The gall of that man to give me a taste of my own medicine! lol He had gone hiking and gone heaven knows how far.
Anyway, I guess what I am saying is that I admire you for reaching out to her but don't continue to reach for a person who aint there. Make sure she knows that you are trying to engage her and then take your party elsewhere. You are such a nice man..a real catch..no sense downplaying your worth right in front of her, kwis? If you take her baloney and pretend not to notice that she's icing you out, she loses respect. Otoh if you get mad at her, it pushes her away. I think you should confidently acknowledge that she's not being all that appealing right then (in other words, of course, lol) and go off and do something SO un-choc that it shakes her up a bit.
And please. Listen to NOP and not me. LOLOL
I really don't know what I'm talking about but I value your friendship and wanted to let you know that the freezeouts do not signify that she's done. If she was, she'd be out of there. She's trying to get a reaction from you and succeeding quite well.
So I reiterate. You and others think that is pushing.
I don't think it is pushing when you have a different POV. I think it is pushing when another declines to argue, and you continue to hammer away.
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What bothers you is not that I push my point, but that you feel I don’t validate another’s. That makes it part my problem and part your problem.
I'm glad YOU know what bothers me, and you are here to tell me what **I** feel. I believe my point was rather succinct. I will repeat it again. I don't think it is pushing when you have a different POV. I think it is pushing when another declines to argue, and you continue to hammer away. I don't see where there is a need for validation in that, either.
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Now you’re trying to tick me off because I know that you know what I meant. That there is not one “right” POV does not mean that my or another other POV is wrong.
There you go again, telling ME how **I** feel, what MY intentions are. I do believe in the beginning of this convo, that I said two POVs can be true at the same time. Doens't mean you have to agree. So again, I will repeat my original point:
I don't think it is pushing when you have a different POV. I think it is pushing when another declines to argue, and you continue to hammer away.
If you fail to understand what it is you think I am trying to communicate, please tell me and I will try to phrase in another way.
