However, the no sex thing began well before the EA. We moved into a big new 5 bedroom house on the beach at the start of 2004. Shortly after that, I unexpectedly lost a huge work contract (it was this contract that allowed us to buy the big house), shortly after that, our D3 was born, shortly after that, her dad was diagnosed with late stage cancer, shortly after that, he died, then shortly after that, the debt problems started and the house turned into a moneypit.
Sheesh. So that was a super-stressful couple of years for us both and I could almost, kinda, nearly, slightly, understand the no sex issue during that time...
However, I pretty much know exactly when the EA started (early 2006) a) because the signs of it happening were so obvious, and b) because she didn't have the computer access to make it happen, and c) because I work from home and she was at home with the kids, too, so I'd definitely have known if there was anything going on.
I'm also dubious about whether she even slept with this EA kid when she flew over. I'm not naive enough to fully believe that she didn't, but because of the way she is at the moment I'm also *not* entirely convinced that she did. I have asked her and made assumptions, but she'll not say much about it, except for "you don't know what happened when I went over there, so just don't assume anything", and as I said, she's still embarrassed about the whole episode, and I think some of the embarrassment comes from what might have happened during the course of that weekend...
Again, I'm not naive enough to believe this 100% but what I think happened is this: she flew over and met him, then thought "what the frock am I doing here in a hotel room with a 24yo kid when my husband and kids are at home", and the weekend took a bit of a nose dive from there on in.
The tone of the emails they sent afterward was weird. He really sounded like some immature kid, and she kept brushing him off until she was ignoring his emails completely. I know that she was ignoring him because his emails went along the lines of "so you're ignoring me now then?", and "I at least expected a reply to that last email" and so on and so on...
All this was last August-ish and I've kept a close enough eye on her to believe that they're absolutely not in contact any more. She also acted completely differently with me while the EA was happening - there was zero touching etc, etc, etc - that was one of the reasons why it was so obvious she was having an EA in the first place.
But you're dead right - it does sound odd that I can't touch her vaginally - I can pretty much trace my hands everywhere else when we're in bed apart from there... definitely odd, huh?
One other thing. You two simply must process the affair. You can do it with or without counseling, but I recommend you find a local, very pro-marriage counselor and work through the affair with them.
Simply put, your wife must understand why she did what she did. She also must address the damage that she did to the marriage. Finally, you will need to fix your part of the marriage.
Right now, your marriage is being mishandled by your wife, and by you as well. You likely have no idea what her issues with you are. Hint, it probably isn't housecleaning. even though you should be helping with that anyway.
Your marriage doesn't sound so damaged that it is going to be a nightmare to fix, but you need to get started, and soon, lest you find your wife off in another "crisis".
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Hint, it probably isn't housecleaning. even though you should be helping with that anyway
Ha! Nope, not that. I work from home and do most of that, together with all the kids' school runs/lunches/dinners/playing/bedtimes/laundry etc, etc.
She works full time, and admittedly only left her last job and started a new one 3 weeks or so ago, so that could be getting to her right now, too.
We've talked some about what happened, and I've conceded that our financial problems and my lack of work took my focus away from the marriage to some extent a couple years ago, and also another part of the problem was the house we were living in - it was falling apart around us and we didn't have the ready cash to fix it up. We also have two really young kids and she readily admits that she's not great with kids, period. There were a lot of aspects of her life that she was super-unhappy with at the time, and she's not a great 'talker' in that respect so she didn't really make me aware of it all. Then losing her dad hit her harder than she'll admit.
I'm not in any way excusing what happened, and she withdrew from the marriage a lot at that time, too, but I guess the EA was purely an escape from a lot of things, together with a little flattery from a young kid at *just* the right (wrong?) time.
However, we're now out of that old house and living in one she really likes as she found it herself just before we got back together (I like it, too), we don't have the money issues, the kids are a little older and a little less demanding, and life is beginning to look up again.
If she didn't want to be with me, she didn't have to make the first moves in terms of reconciliation. That's why I'm so confused about the no sex thing.
He stayed patient with me. He never criticized me. He cherished me. When I just couldn't do something... he'd give me a hug, a big dopey grin, and say... well... no big deal, let's watch a funny movie.... or go do something else... and off we'd go. He'd make me laugh, and little by little, the confidence I had lost in myself began to grow again.
Following on from Cemar's thread where that was posted yesterday, I just want to run something by you guys.
Since I last posted, and since that quote above, I'm feeling a little more positive about things. We've had a couple of little talks about this where she sounded a little depressed and was saying things like "I'm the least interesting person I know" (meaning she thinks she's not interesting!) and "there's just nothing about me" (again, she's talking about herself), etc, etc. She would NEVER admit to being depressed, but I'm guessing that there's some kind of low self esteem thing at work heren for some reason, and that she's finding it difficult to fully let go of herself - sexually, at least - with me. However, she's said that if/when sex happens, it'll be her choice, and that she "doesn't know" if it'll always be like this", so at least she's not completely drawing a line in the sand, right?
We're still doing the snuggling on the couch thing, there's lots of playful/flirty talk and name-calling, etc, and we had a nice cuddle in bed at the weekend, albeit until the kids woke up.
We're going camping all week next week (with the kids), I've planned a night for her birthday the week after (without the kids), and we've booked a week or so away in July together (again without the kids - woohoo!), so there's lots of positive stuff happening. Stuff that I don't think would be happening if there were any signs of a continuing EA, right?
So here's what I want to run by you...
I'd really like to tell her that I can get by without the sex until she's ready for that, but in the meantime I'd *love* it if she could be the one to ask for a cuddle in bed before we go to sleep, or in the morning (again, I'm not talking about sex). Also whether she could do a couple more little, tiny things that I used to love. Things like replying to the random flirty texts I occasionally send her where I tell her she's gorgeous, and that I love her, etc, and maybe even send the occasional one herself. Same with emails and other notes around the house, blah, blah, blah.
They're just tiny, non-sexual but affectionate, things that she used to do anyway and it would mean the world to me if she could do any of these again. I also think that doing this stuff would be the first steps to getting us back on track again.
So... is there a 'right' way to ask her this without sounding needy or sappy? Arrgh.
Or should I just leave things as they are for the next few weeks, stick religiously to that quote right at the top of this post, and see where we end up?
I can only speak for myself, but personally those things wouldn't even mean anything to me if I had to ask her to do them. Kinda defeats the purpose, kwim?
The whole point to a little note is to say "I'm thinking about you; you're important to me," not "OK, here, I'm doing what you asked me to."
So no, I don't think there's a way you can ask for that that won't sound needy. I DO think, however, for your own personal integrity there's nothing wrong with you saying "When you don't do thus-and-such, it makes me feel thus-and-such," or even take it further and say "When you don't respond to these kindnesses, I take it as a sign that our marriage isn't important to you," but I don't think you can ASK her to do them.
Just my two cents, taken with a whooole bunch o' salt from my own weird sitch right now.
I DO think, however, for your own personal integrity there's nothing wrong with you saying "When you don't do thus-and-such, it makes me feel thus-and-such," or even take it further and say "When you don't respond to these kindnesses, I take it as a sign that our marriage isn't important to you," but I don't think you can ASK her to do them.
Ok, here's how your W is probably feeling. Not sure how old she is or how old your kids are and I don't have time to go back & read right now, but here's what I would say: Yes, she probably does have low self-esteem, no self-confidence, etc. right now. She's probably feeling like a lot of us -- I'm just a mom (maybe even working) and WHO THE H*LL AM I ANYMORE??!! What happened to the person I was when we got married? That's a very HARD question to answer and a very HARD sitch to work through. I don't know if you H's understand (really) all of this, but it's something like this: we end up being the mom, taking care of a lot of things around the house, maybe working or maybe not and we LOSE OUR SELF in that. And then when we try to figure out who we are and want some sort of ME and not mommy to surface, that's not an easy task. Weight comes into the issue whether you think it's a problem or not. All of this rolled up into our brain is a very hard thing to tackle. We say yeah GAL, but w/ the kids, etc., etc., that's not easy to do. Sometimes we've let go of all of our outside friends b/c it's not easy to get out and DO.
I wouldn't SAY anything to her about the sex, cuddling, etc. You go ahead & keep making the efforts and she will appreciate this and hopefully come to the point where she is ready to put in her efforts. BUT until (if this is even where she is at and I could be way off) she starts learning to love herself again, it's going to be hard for her.
Learning to love ourself again and learning to figure out who we are these days takes a lot of thinking and feeling and figuring out what to do to find some sort of self beyond being mom, wife, etc.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
From my own POV I see nothing wrong in you telling your wife how much you love it when SHE cuddles you first. That it makes you feel really good when she sends you a loving text or whatever the things are that make you feel loved.
I won't go all into my own sitch you can check out my recent posts if you like. Basically I told my H that if he withdrew afection from me again the M was over. I also told him I wanted him to be the one kissing me not always the other way around. Now it is difficult for him at times to change his own pattern of behaviour BUT he is now doing some of the things I have always wanted.
I in turn do the things I know he loves and if I feel like it is me making all the effort I let him know and he does respond.
I have no idea why your wife won't let you touch her below the waist but was in a similar situation where my H was having ED problems but absolutely refused to touch ME there.
Could it be that your wife is having lack of sensation and doesn't want to go further than the kissing etc because she isn't really getting aroused like she used to? Quite common when hormones change. Sometimes dryness or fear of pain because of this can stop a woman from wanting to go further. Could be lots of medical reasons as well as emotional.
Now this will be hard for her to talk to you about most females I know talk about this with their friends not their partners. Just the way it is women talk way more to their friends about their SL than men do IMO.
Keep communicating with her and don't lose the affection at least she's not pulling away from you and that is a big sign that you have hope for the future.
Cadesmom - I totally understand where you're coming from with the "WHO THE H*LL AM I ANYMORE" stuff... I can see how that can affect lots of people. And yeah, I guess us guys are less susceptible to all that (if that makes sense without offending anyone! ;op ) because of the whole mom thing and all that - and therefore less understanding. Maybe? OK, I'll stop digging that hole for myself...
Shmagic - I agree, I don't think there's anything wrong in letting her know that, either. I need to think of the best way to do it...
Anything wrong with you saying after you've kissed or cuddled her Honey I LOVE kissing you and I love it even more when you kiss or cuddle me first? That way you're letting her know what you'd like but not being needy.
You could say I loved it when you put notes in with my lunch and I miss them. Now I know that might sound like you're asking but there is a subtle difference that as a woman I get. Namely you're not telling her to do it just stating a fact and it is up to her whether she responds or not.
Obviously only one thing at a time slowly slowly does it. You don't disconnect overnight so it will take time to reconnect.
