Happy Together at Long Last!!!

[Confident_Me]

Thanks CM - I think I may well be taking an online trip to Amazon soon (book website)

Kewl, I recommended this one to Faerie Mist & last time I spoke with her she was getting some useful stuff from it

And ... now the good news... he comes home and it's a complete 180!!!! He's smiling, handing out hugs and complimenting me on my cooking .... THUD..just fell over...er....180's are amazingly powerful.

Yes, and therefore I look forward to implementing your 180 for me (tomorrow)

But we'll see... changes may not last

Hey that's speculation and being negative

Stop hanging around me so much


Seriously though, just keep working on you and maintain your newfound confidence AND esteem

[SDFoundGirl]

((((Jen))))

Oh girl, do I know how you feel. Sometimes I think this is harder because our hubbies didn't have to DB like we did. It makes you stronger and teaches you how to think. I think sometimes they don't get how much easier it would have been to just tell them to p!ss off instead of standing for our M.

The thing is, all things in life seek balance. The strengths we gained have a corresponding weak side. We over-analyze. Over think. Over.

And, to be honest, I think some of it is a lot like PSD. We're still hearing gunshots long after they've ceased firing.

48-hour rule. Journaling. GAL/PMA. These things are pretty much the staple of my existence...and well, I'm seeing they'll have to be for the rest of my life.

ALSO: YOU are not responsible for H's happiness. I know you know that, but given one of your comments, I felt it bore repeating. :-)

SD

[Jeff223]

You sound good Jenny. Any R has its ups and downs. SD says some good things. DB has many good tools but the trap is we over focus on the M. We walk on eggshells too much and look for "results".

Someday, we will "just be". To be ourselves. To be in a R and give in that R and expect nothing in return. To allow our partners to be who they are. That is far easier said than done.

But you are on your way to that goal.

[Jen_Jam]

I hear you all ... still in my cave about this a bit. But I can't live my life waiting for the next bomb... it will drive me crazy. I DO NOT want a R where I constantly have to watch what I say and do for fear of making him walk off. I cannot have a R filled with fear.
This is one thing I will have to work on for myself .. SD I really identify with the PSD - it IS like waiting for the next gunshot. I cannot live like that. I choose to live my life differently. I hope H will be with me.

Someday, we will "just be". To be ourselves. To be in a R and give in that R and expect nothing in return. To allow our partners to be who they are. That is far easier said than done.

This is my ultimate goal. Right now I have to break that down into baby steps.

H is being really nice to me again tonight ... not all I want but he's trying, he's heard me and that's really important. I would do well to focus on the positives. I'm trying not to become a WAW because I could not put my hand on my heart and say a D would make me happy, Sure, it would be the easier option but if I did it I know I would, in years to come, think "what if?".

[Rob1231]

Jenny, darling, I'm sorry to hear you feeling so down. However, I think this is more about your reaction (what YOU can control, right?) than about his action (what you CAN'T control, right?)

Let's go back to the beginning here. You said,

H wants to give up smoking, in fact he's adamant about it. So far, so good. he says he feels unhealthy and has problems breathing. he says he feels bad. He has his constipated face back on. He then thinks "all the other things" will fall into place - by this I am assuming he means the fact he wants to ML only once in a blue moon and then if I'm lucky.

First of all, it seems like you both agree that H's smoking is impacting his health and is making him feel physically bad much of the time. You agree that him stopping is a good idea, and you understand that stopping is difficult, and will make him irritable.

OK, so here's what I want you to do. Even though H has kind of led you down this path, DON'T make his stopping smoking be about the R or about you. Be supportive and be understanding. Don't leap to conclusions. If he is crabby, just say to him "I understand this is tough and I'm going on a walk, I'll be back when you are feeling better." Don't take it personally, because his feeling bad is not about you.

Next, regarding the ML issue you raised. Well, let me ask - is it possible that he's right, that feeling physically bad himself IS hampering his sex drive? That seems very possible to me, although I doubt that's the whole story. However, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and agree with the idea that it IS a part of the problem.

And even if there are more issues to deal with (hey, this ML stuff can be complicated, right?) - well, if he's taking one step to try and improve things, assume that's the beginning of something GOOD, not something bad! Thank him for taking that step, and ACT AS IF there will be more steps.

Do your best to encourage and support him in this. I'm not saying that for H, though - I'm saying it for YOU. Get your PMA back in gear, my dear!

[ACJ]

Jen,
Is your H going 'cold turkey' on the cigarettes? This will only make his 'black' days worse. Try and encourage him to go to a smoking cessation clinic. They are avaiable in several places from GP surgeries to community pharmacies. They can either be in a group session or if that is not for him by himself. He wants a one on one he would be better going to see a pharmacist. Not all offer it but most of the big multiples do. All he has to do is ask. Maybe you could show your willingness to help by finding this info out for him.

Just a thought.

Keep smiling

[nara]

Jen_Jam, kudos to your supreme efforts to keeping the M alive.

It's interesting when you say the H is a "want," and no longer a "need." After what you've been through, aside from saving your marriage, you have also saved yourself. And perhaps now you're even a better you (with or without him).

My congrats to you both. Lots of luck.

[Jen_Jam]

ACj - H is going cold turkey. he's tried gum and patches before and they make him feel worse. I have pointed out there are quit smoking support groups but I can't push him on this one, he hates being pushed. So I've left it to him. he has got the ASH website stop smoking factsheet - he'll do it in his own way.

Nara - I haven't read your sitch (sorry) but on the want not a need thing - yes H def is a want, and if you think about it it's more flattering to be wanted rather than needed. To be needed implies a lack of choice, and no-one wants to be in an R where the other person feels compelled to stay with them when they don't really want to. it's funny how all those great love songs talk about "needing" someone - how wrong they are. Listen out for the lyrics and laugh the was a true DB'er only can!!

[Jen_Jam]

OK ... long post alert after a few days of looking into myself.

I spent the start of the week in fear - fear that H would feel good about himself then decide he didn't want me anymore. When I was previously bombed H had been very down, almost depressed. If he bombed me when he was clear, calm and happy with his life I think there would be no way back.

BUT - then I thought "yes this is one possible future - what are the others?"

I hated being in fear of another bomb. I cannot live my life like that so have chosen not to. This requires work on MYSELF - there is little H can do to help me with this, this one comes from me and me alone. As Rob1231 wisely pointed out, I cannot fall into the trap of thinking each little downer is the start of another crises. A downer is just that. Only a downer. And I am well equipeed with the tools to get through it now.

I feel too that I don't listen to H properly - often I hear what I want to hear, then he tells me again a few more times and it's like something clicks and I finally "get" it. I need to work more on listening and really hearing what H is saying, and not jumping to awful conclusions. I had a course a week or so ago and it included something called "Active Listening". I have been trying to use these skills in all conversations I have right now, trying to develop the habit with everyone, not just H.

Then I got to thinking "I am taking the blame for this downner again". And H isn't blaming me, **I** am. So who's got to work on that? We used to have a horrid cycle in our R when I would approach H with somthing I didn't like (pre-bomb in a BAAAD way, I mean I was a total bee-ach!, post bomb far more calmly) then he would feel bad cos I felt bad, I would end up comforting him and telling him it didn't matter. I became resentful cos I felt I was the one with the problem first, then I was apologising to H for being upset. So - that cycle needs to be broken. I've managed it before and I will again. Last time I took the blame for all our M problems, in time I came to see that it wasn't all me, and that sometimes things just WERE, without blame, that we BOTH got things wrong. My taking all the blame led to me being depressed and having individual C, which actually was a good thing as it did bring up a lot of my self esteem issues and I feel I have the tools now to conquer that, and have done well so far on that.

I had approached H about his LD. I stated calmly that if nothing got done somewhere down the line I would be at risk of having an affair, and that isn't something I wanted to do. This has made H upset and I was thinking of comforting him BUT he has been trying (hading out cuddles, sending texts messsages, small things and not all I want but it's an effort so has to be applauded). So I thought "well, if I comfort him that's just going back into the old cycle". So I have decided to say no more on the LD issue. I have made my feelings quite clear, I think labouring the point would be detrimental to my goal of building intimacy.

So - that then leads me to my new DB strategy - Do Nothing. Now is the time for H to step up and I will see if he will take up the challenge. Last night I detached myself emotionally and viewed my R though very objective eyes. I decided I cannot be happy with this lack of intimacy. I have asked for what I want and I have given in my head H 3 months to show baby steps. I'm afraid that if by mid Sept this year if he has shown not one baby step then I will cut my losses. I cannot force H to change, and although I can help him by Cheerleading when he does take a baby step towards more intimacy I cannot really guide him on this. The work has to come from him, and it's up to me to create an environment where he feel comfortable to do that work. me being needy and clingy is not that environment. I have not told H about the 3 months, that would be putting pressure on him and in a way forcing him. If I get my "prize" by forcing it then it isn't worth it - I do NOT want a R where the other person feels in any way compelled to do things they really don't want to.

So - in summary I am rejecting fear, I have realised I need to listen better, I am rejecting being too hard on myself. Instead of telling myself off for getting it wrong I have decided to step back and look at how I can get things right. I have DB'ed well, and I have learned a h3ll of a lot. It's time for me to get out of my pity party and to apply those skills.

One last quote which I am remembering now - "behavioural change is a journey, not a destination." I don't know who said it, but I like it.

OK - now I'm off to get drunk. I feel stong and confident right now.

[swashy]

WOW Jen. You got a lot going on girl. Listen...something that kept ringing out to me as I read everything you wrote...and you seem to come to it at the end a bit...DETACHMENT! Worrying about another bomb is your own insecurity. If he leaves, he leaves. You can't control that. And you should know by now that you will be ok without him anyway. Right? I know you worked hard to get where you are right now...but it is not about winning or losing it is about what is right for YOU. That doesn't mean stick by him but it means stop worrying about losing after putting in so much effort.

As for the smoking thing....I dunno. Glad he's quiting. You know a M is a like a see saw - expect him to be down for a bit and expect to have to be up for a bit. Hopefully, he'll be able to do it and come back up and feel better than ever and then...if you need to be down...he can be up for you.

As for the intamacy thing. Nothing is more attractive than a strong, independent, detached woman. SO...see my first paragraph again.

Your good Jen...I just feel like you have gotten to wrapped up in him and your M and you are starting to lose YOU a bit. Go find you. Once you have that...all else will fall into place.