Duty, love, and attitude

[mrsc]

Interesting observations CE. Parenting my son led me to an a-ha moment earlier this year. Kids give us a chance to evaluate ourselves and our behavior and make changes for the better.

It's sad to read your posts about your relationship (or lack thereof) with your mother. I'm starting to realize just how important a boy's relationship with his mother is. I am the center of S4's world right now and it's quite amazing. I'm mindful of the fact that he is learning how to relate to women through his relationship with me.

It makes sense from a FOO standpoint that you would look to your GF or W to fulfill the maternal role that your own mother did not. It sounds like you've had a major breakthrough. How is your W responding to the changes?

Have you been searching for your birth family? Your feelings on the adoption and not having sibs are understandable. It's human nature to take for granted what we have and idealize what we do not have. I don't have a close R with my brother, but still I know he's there and I think I could rely on him if I was in serious trouble. But honestly, my friends have been more of a constant in my life. I remind myself of this fact when I worry about S4 being an only.

[mrsc]

Well, if it turns out to be true, it's too late to worry about it now. We've already had all the kids we want. We'd just get fixed and keep our mouths shut.

LOL.

[Crazy Eddie]

It's sad to read your posts about your relationship (or lack thereof) with your mother. I'm starting to realize just how important a boy's relationship with his mother is.

Yeah, me too. I never really wanted to acknowledge it, lest I be tempted to use it as an excuse. Or be accused of using it as an excuse. But trying to ignore the facts just makes things worse, and acknowledging them doesn't have to mean accusing her of ill intent or negligence.

I do see that, sad as it is to read of this relationship, it must have been almost unbearably sad for her to live through it.

I am the center of S4's world right now and it's quite amazing. I'm mindful of the fact that he is learning how to relate to women through his relationship with me.

It makes sense from a FOO standpoint that you would look to your GF or W to fulfill the maternal role that your own mother did not. It sounds like you've had a major breakthrough. How is your W responding to the changes?

Very positively. Fortunately, she can't say that she had to walk out or find someone else to get me to change. She did show more patience, love, and desire over the years than I had any right to expect, and I'll do my best to reward her in the ways that speak to her.

She is, to this day, the only person that has ever expressed a desire to sleep with me. What's so different about her? I can't say. It's not any sort of promiscuity; I'm the only person who has ever slept with her. She seemed to actually enjoy the maternal role for a while, until she had actual kids; then she was easily frustrated. But, oddly enough, she still wanted me from time to time. Now, not surprisingly, she wants me a lot more. Part of that may be the fact that she's been addressing some of her own issues recently.

Have you been searching for your birth family?

I've searched and signed up for a number of registries; thus far, they have not. I am strongly considering the use of a private investigator; I don't yet feel that the expense is justified, given our situation, but I've told my wife that I want it to be my next major purchase when we are ready.

Her reaction is "what if they don't want anything to do with you?" I've long wondered that myself, but in a situation like this, inevitably someone has to make the first move and it looks like it'll be me. I shouldn't seriously expect all of them to refuse to speak to me. If they do, at least I'll know for sure instead of wondering if I should have gone through with it. I'm feeling strong enough these days to generally prefer painful knowledge to ignorance.

[/quote]
Your feelings on the adoption and not having sibs are understandable. It's human nature to take for granted what we have and idealize what we do not have. I don't have a close R with my brother, but still I know he's there and I think I could rely on him if I was in serious trouble. But honestly, my friends have been more of a constant in my life. I remind myself of this fact when I worry about S4 being an only. [/quote]

For the record, I insisted on multiple kids, and ended up with three. Their interactions show me just how much I was idealizing sibling relationships. The older two do get along well, though, most of the time, and seem to be close friends. I hope for their sake that this continues throughout their lives, and I do my best to encourage it. The youngest one is not nearly as close to either of them, and probably wouldn't have much of a difference in his life if he were the only.

I have been known to tell them "y'all better appreciate each other!" and, once, even "just be glad you know each other... you wouldn't like it if y'all were separated and didn't even know each other's names!". Probably not the best thing to do, but they seemed to get the message.

[Crazy Eddie]

Why can't I feel as much desire for my H as I do when I think of that OM grabbing my arm as I walk past him in the family room, throwing me over the side of the couch, and having his way with me, without saying a dammm word. That's not what a modern educated woman should liek, right? Welcome to my world. My H sure as heck can't figure me out.

Having tried several times to do this, I've run into a few snags...

The first, of course, is that she can read me far too well for me to surprise her at all. She knows, hours before the fact, what I'm planning to do to her. Well, not precisely what I'm planning to do to her, but she knows that I'm in the mood for loooove. She's not going to casually walk by me when we have the house to ourselves and be the least bit surprised when I grab her and bend her over the side of the couch. She'll know the minute she sees me on the couch that I'm waiting for her. She'll go along with it, of course, but it's not the same.

I've also tried teasing her... lightly touching her and making her wait for it, telling her "no, you can't have any". She rolls her eyes and knows exactly what I'm up to... the mystery and anticipation just isn't happening, and she finds it amusing more than anything.

Fortunately, she enjoys herself anyway. And she doesn't seem to need to be dominated or surprised to really get into it. But if she did, we'd have a real problem.

[LustForLife]

She's not going to casually walk by me when we have the house to ourselves and be the least bit surprised when I grab her and bend her over the side of the couch. She'll know the minute she sees me on the couch that I'm waiting for her. She'll go along with it, of course, but it's not the same.

No, it's not the same. But it would be impossible to be the same because we are dealing with long-term M's here, not a "I'm not really sure who you are yet" fling. So whatcha gonna do?

I've also tried teasing her... lightly touching her and making her wait for it, telling her "no, you can't have any". She rolls her eyes and knows exactly what I'm up to... the mystery and anticipation just isn't happening, and she finds it amusing more than anything.

Well, I think that's hot. But maybe it's the lack of surprise again that makes her roll her eyes.

Fortunately, she enjoys herself anyway. And she doesn't seem to need to be dominated or surprised to really get into it. But if she did, we'd have a real problem.

I here ya. I know my H and I can have great sex. And I enjoy myself. It's not like I Need the domination/surprise, but dammm that is a turn on. Ah well.
LFL

[Crazy Eddie]

I here ya. I know my H and I can have great sex. And I enjoy myself. It's not like I Need the domination/surprise, but dammm that is a turn on. Ah well.

I guess it's really fortunate for me she doesn't have a basis for comparison. It would be quite a turn-on for me too, if she would follow the script. Or not see me following the script. Or something.

No, it's not the same. But it would be impossible to be the same because we are dealing with long-term M's here, not a "I'm not really sure who you are yet" fling. So whatcha gonna do?

Work on my poker face, I guess. Maybe while I'm at it I should find a group of guys to come over and play poker. Or better yet, a group of girls... I'll either get a really good poker face or a really severe financial problem.

OK, never mind.

[Crazy Eddie]

I doubled my dose of stimulant, and in true ADD fashion, this has made me downright lethargic.

Of course I haven't been to the gym in a week or so. I seem to be developing joint problems. Time to go back and force myself into a lighter workout until I get some MRI's done. I'm way too young for this crap. I wonder if my parents never came looking for me because they dropped dead 15 years ago.

Damn, that's way too much pessimism. Something's out of whack. Oh yeah, need to go back to the gym. Or something.

Now I'm sure a lot of y'all are wondering how to connect with someone who's firmly in his shell and wants nothing more than to be left alone. That's a good question. Thinking back, I remember hoping that she'd lovingly draw me out of my shell. Of course that would have involved either (a) reading my mind and talking about whatever I was thinking about without giving any hints that my thoughts worried or upset her in any way, or (b) since she wasn't reading my mind, she'd have to ask questions, ignore my defensiveness when those questions concerned things I didn't want to talk about until later (or at all), and keep changing the subject without much direction from me. Or better yet, question me about things that I didn't want to talk about in some magical way that would have made me want to talk about them, and then make me feel better about them somehow. Which, again, would have involved some mindreading. And anyway, it wasn't fair to expect her to do any of that all the time while remaining upbeat, positive, and generally happy.

Or maybe just been upbeat, loving, nurturing, and all that good stuff for a good long while, without much in the way of reciprocation, and truly enjoy talking whenever I felt like talking, and maybe I'd have wanted to open up more eventually. Kind of like they tell LBS's to do all over this site. Which, again, involves a hell of a lot of one-sided effort.

Or just do what she did, which was to stay put, pick up where I was leaving off, and do a moderate amount of griping and complaining and fighting until I got so miserable that I was more afraid of continuing the path I was on than I was afraid of facing my problems and trusting a professional to help me fix them.

Part of the problem of opening up to her was that she was depending on me, since she was home with the kids and hadn't finished college. I couldn't bring myself to tell her that I was unhappy in large part because I was having an incredibly hard time taking care of her the way that I had promised to, or that I saw a real possibility that I wasn't able to take care of her now or in the future. I mean, how do you tell someone that you're feeling down because you might screw up and land them in the poorhouse. The best case is they don't believe you and pat you on the back and say you're being paranoid. If they believe you, they can't just nurture you and support you while knowing that you might screw up and lose everything they're depending on for their own well-being and that of their kids.

Well, anyway, your spouse might be holding back fears of that sort, justified or otherwise. Or he might be holding back general fears that he can't resist the charms of some woman he knows. Or he might just be depressed and thinking that his whole life is miserable and having unkind thoughts about you that he would see as completely absurd if his mood were better. It's hard to tell.

Stay tuned, and maybe I'll hit on a magic formula somewhere in these musings. Or maybe I'll reach the conclusion that it's hopeless until something happens to him, which may or may not involve you running out of patience.

[Heywyre]

how to connect with someone who's firmly in his shell and wants nothing more than to be left alone.

Isn't this just the typical man?

I couldn't bring myself to tell her that I was unhappy in large part because I was having an incredibly hard time taking care of her the way that I had promised to

As honourable as that is, stop with the pity party will ya!

which may or may not involve you running out of patience.

You don't have a clue how patient we can be - just give us a try and keep venting, it's doing you a world of good.

(patiently waiting for the next chapter of CE's life)

[Crazy Eddie]

how to connect with someone who's firmly in his shell and wants nothing more than to be left alone.

Isn't this just the typical man?

I don't know about "typical", but looking back it doesn't seem all that conducive to domestic bliss, for either party.

It is possible to have better, if you're open to it. Hell, these days I'm interested in her flower garden. Seriously. She's getting good at growing flowers, and she tells me about the thought behind what she does and the work that goes into it, and I am really fascinated by it. How'd that happen?

I couldn't bring myself to tell her that I was unhappy in large part because I was having an incredibly hard time taking care of her the way that I had promised to

As honourable as that is, stop with the pity party will ya!

Sure. I found better ways to deal with that. I'm just saying that, at the time, while she could tell there were Things On My Mind, I figured I couldn't share them with her without freaking her out. Holding it in wasn't such a good plan either. I had to fix them, instead, and then share ways that she could help that had a high chance of success. She's not my mom, and doesn't want to be (at least not all the time).

which may or may not involve you running out of patience.

You don't have a clue how patient we can be - just give us a try and keep venting, it's doing you a world of good.

(patiently waiting for the next chapter of CE's life)

I was actually speaking of you losing patience with your spouse. I don't mean to accuse any of y'all of losing patience with me. It may happen, but I'm not going to obsess about it. At least not this month.

[Crazy Eddie]

Somebody a few weeks back mentioned that it was easier to get their kid to talk if they were riding in a car. Like it was easier for the kid to open up if you weren't looking at them. Stands to reason, when you think about it.

Both of us seem to have our best conversations these days laying in bed with the lights off, before we go to sleep. There'll be days when I hang out with her for hours in front of the TV, and can't get more than two words out of her, but as soon as we climb into bed and get ready to go to sleep, she'll talk to me nonstop for almost an hour. Maybe not being able to see my face, or just relaxing and dropping her anxieties as she slowly approaches sleep. If she were here, she'd probably say the same thing about me.

Maybe some of y'all can get a good conversation going that way. Just don't count on them remembering everything that was said toward the end!