The "mystery" to our marriage is simple. It is based on mutual caring and respect
I have understood this. What I don’t understand is how that squares with love. Which maybe explains why you say
MrsNOP and I don't think we have an ideal marriage.
That makes sense.
…and those are two ideals that you have yet to master in your own relationship. That makes you blind as to understanding us enough to accept us. The resulting distrust then causes you to see demons where there are none.
No, I don’t think it is distrust, I think it is the perception, possibly erroneous on my part, that you two have a marriage based on love. If what you say is true over on LFL’s earlier thread:
That being said; My greatest "emotional need" is sex - connected sex. It is basically my only need from my wife, I can get by without much else. That makes me a bit odd, but it does fit with my sex drive being what it is.
I know you say you love her, but the tone in posts like this and the following:
I married MrsNOP because I loved her, but I was never infatuated with her, nor she with me. We both burned all that potential out living with each other before we were married. Much like you and your husband decided to get married due to pregnancy, we decided to get married because I thought it was the right thing to do, and MrsNOP basically went along with it.
make me think you are highly motivated by doing what is right, what you feel is your obligation or duty (makes sense for a military man). But I also see that as guilt driven, other driven, shame based. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the value of duty, obligation, etc, but many people on this board get into trouble because of too great an adherence to this rather than following true love and your own inner desires.
Your problem with me is simple. You can't pigeon hole me and that simply drives you insane. That is due to your lack of understanding, not some dark intentions to alpha-rule the forum and control the universe on my part.
I don’t think you want to control the universe, but I do think you dodge the deeper emotional aspects of your M and therefore why you offer the advice you do, even though that advice usually coincides with a more empathic approach.
So I will offer you an honest piece of advice. Figure out what the cause of your paranoia is, and why it is so important to you that you feel included, and you will take a big step toward some personal healing.
Perhaps you can take some advice too, which is to stop reacting so strongly when someone posts contrary to your POV or you feel someone has impugned you in some way that you have to fight to defend your valor. So you had a colored past. Maybe you had to fight your way to where you are today. Maybe you want to get past that history and earn some respect. Good for you. Show respect and you’ll get respect.
Corri,
Better to meet a man who has lived life.... and can see with the accuracy of 20/20 hindsight, than to meet a man who hypothesizes from all he has learned from books. Experience... to me... is a quite a valid POV.
Not sure what you are trying to say here... I won't assume, but I think I have plenty of real world experience to offer too, not just from books.
Everyone thinks you have the ideal marriage and recovery. Maybe you do. Maybe you don’t. I can’t find enough information to tell one way or the other.
I sincerely doubt that anyone who has been married for more than 2 years believes that ideal marriages exist. And should you presume to speak for "everyone"?
*Good* marriages can exist.
And most marriages can do with improvement.
And I cannot imagine that you can point to anything that I or NOP have ever posted that even hinted that we believe our marriage was an/the ideal that should be emulated.
Quote:
And until I can get a better feel for your dynamics, I take your R advice with a certain grain of salt. There are cracks that I see. You two do a good job of patching each other’s cracks, which is good from an R standpoint, but I am not convinced yours is the model to follow.
One of the last go-rounds you had with this NOP posted the following to you:
"My marriage was essentially dead, and needed some intense attention. That was MY marriage. While the approach I took to begin to recover our marriage may be similar to that needed by others, it is most assuredly not the only approach, and in fact, could be very damaging if misapplied."
It appears to me that you create some sort of strawNOP and then go forth into battle against the strawNOP of your own creation.
As to your "There are cracks that I see. You two do a good job of patching each other's cracks,..."
You keep hinting of things that sound so dire on the face of it. ~Our foos are leaking, we're hiding our foos, our cracks are showing~ - what are you so desperately trying to figure out about us? Neither of us pretend to be anything than what we are - two people in their fifties, who had a marriage go very wrong, and who in recent years started working on making it better. We are no different than any other participant on this forum in that regard.
I've talked about my foo and my issues about as much as anyone else here. I don't dwell on it because at this stage of my life it is immaterial to me. In my 20s, I realized that I had a difficult childhood that had impacted me in some ways. I started then and continue to assess my behaviors and beliefs that may have been skewed by that background.
I start with this premise "is this behavior, attitude or habit healthy/productive?" I can see where sometimes it has roots in my foo and I can see where some of it has roots in my personality AND IN THE END IT DOESN'T MATTER - because *I* do my damndest to take responsibility for *my* behaviors, attitudes and habits.
I can and do look back at my parents with mercy and grace - they are no longer responsible for me and my choices. To continue to point the finger at them is to avoid myself in the now.
Quote:
There are some very good points that can be incorporated, but exactly how and why your marriage works is still a mystery to me.
:shrug: Exactly how would knowing how and why MY marriage works be of any benefit to you?
I love you as much as I can understand love, regardless of whatever appearance that might take on to others.
I choose you now just as I chose you long ago. I stayed in our marriage until I finally grasped what had to be done to save it.
I choose to love you regardless of my mood at any given time of the day. My love doesn't waiver because I am feeling like a school kid with a new crush, or like I would rather hug a tree.
I choose to love you even when you think you aren't very lovable, and even when your behavior would lend credence to that impression
All I have ever had to offer you, is the best, and the worst of me. My only claim as to worthiness, is that I will not give up.
I love you wife.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I know you say you love her, but the tone in posts like this and the following:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I married MrsNOP because I loved her, but I was never infatuated with her, nor she with me. We both burned all that potential out living with each other before we were married. Much like you and your husband decided to get married due to pregnancy, we decided to get married because I thought it was the right thing to do, and MrsNOP basically went along with it. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
make me think you are highly motivated by doing what is right, what you feel is your obligation or duty (makes sense for a military man). But I also see that as guilt driven, other driven, shame based. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the value of duty, obligation, etc, but many people on this board get into trouble because of too great an adherence to this rather than following true love and your own inner desires.
Geez, Cobra - that's another one of your strawNOPs. I'm glad that there were posts from NOP when we were still alienated from each other that disproves the idea that he probably didn't/doesn't love me and is possibly with me because of duty, guilt and shame.
Here are a few excerpts of a search for "NOPkins" and "love".
"Ours has been dilligent, forthright (in all aspects except sex), kind and non-abusive. I love my wife. I love her very much. She is the ONLY woman I have ever loved. She is also driving me insane."
"I love my sweet wife very much. I am more in love with her now than when we married. I love her smile. I love to hear her voice. Sometimes sweetness simply exudes from her and is contagious to everyone around. She stole my heart many years ago and still has it."
"Sex with the one you love, your life partner, the love of your life, simply can't be replaced by sex of the casual variety. Period. Obviously, LL knows this and continues to persue her true love. I continue to persue mine."
" I can tell you something that I have discovered. History, with someone that you love, is hard if not impossible to replace."
And even when he was especially pissed and hurt at me:
" I used to see her through eyes of love. In all honesty, I saw the same beautiful 21 year old girl I married, every time I looked at her. I don't know what has triggered reality to set in. Maybe it is the repeated broken promises. "
...End of self-indulgent stuff...
So, I'm back to asking you why you are expending so much energy in trying to psychoanalyze us? And it would appear to always be with negative connotations. To what purpose?
Oh. Thought you might have been one of my old sista's as I seem to like you so much.
Which just means you are a new sister I seem to like rather well.
Corri
Why thanks. I wasn't in a SSM myself, so I felt odd about posting here, but always thought this forum had the smartest, and most interesting people of the entire message board.
I sat silently on the sidelines, cheering you guys on, for example Mojo .... "leave that creep!! Go!!!" *grin* Then finally, I had to jump in, saying, "uhhh..... you don't know me, but ....I've been reading you for like, uhmmm, years now, and, uhmmm ....."
Bluntly? Get out of your own GD POV. Your life is YOUR story. Period. What you have to go through, to get it better, DO it. Don't apologize for it. Don't justify it. Do it.
Share your POV with others. If they want it, fine. If they don't. fine. What is driving that ego of yours to be right all the friggin' time with this FOO stuff? Do you have any inkling that SOME people may be beyond that? Jesus... sometimes you sound like CeMar... broken record and all.
Not to say you don't have incredibly insightful posts, at times. You do. You are a man who is worthy of empathy and respect. You just don't seem to be able to give it.
But to ram another, down their throat... for what YOU see lacking... is a step beyond helpful. Only in MY POV. We all do what we have to do... to make life right for US... or in my case, ME. But my goodness, guy... how many ways to Sunday does someone have to tell you? How is it that you can ask for respect if you are not willing to give it?
It is one thing to challenge... sure. I do not see you as debating a point, but attacking someone's character. There is a difference. Learn. Grow. There is room for both, and I THINK that is what the NOPS are asking of you.
Oh. Well, sweetykins... let me be the first to welcome a true sister of grit.
SSM or not. That's all we seek here anyways... true grit, determination... intelligence, thoughtful discourse... a bit of humor... you seem to fit very, very well.
Oh. Well, sweetykins... let me be the first to welcome a true sister of grit.
SSM or not. That's all we seek here anyways... true grit, determination... intelligence, thoughtful discourse... a bit of humor... you seem to fit very, very well.
Corri
Thank you. I am also truly happy that you found someone willing to love, and grow, with you. That's really special.
Quote: That's just my take on it though. Right now you two remind me of two alpha dogs circling each other trying to win leadership of the pack.
I disagree with this strongly. Cobra does not seem to generally disagree with what NOP posts.
Cobra disagrees with HOW he posts.
That was kind of my point. My comparing them to alpha dogs circling each other honestly is not meant as an insult or anything like that...it's what their exchanges were reminding me of, not honestly saying either one is battling for oneupsmanship.
The way Cobra keeps coming at someone, (anyone for that matter, NOPs in this case) his hammering away them with his POV is truly what prompted that analogy for me.
I was actually discussing this thread with my H last night, to get his perspective on it (I like to do that)...during that discussion I think I finally said out loud what I really meant to say here. Cobra seems to keep wanting NOP's to prove himself on this BB(you may say you don't Cobra, but I think yo do)...when no one here owes anyone anything. We have nothing to prove to each other here...we are all free to take the advice others give...or not. If NOP's has something to say to someone that is helpful, he's free to say it...the recipient is free to take that advice or not. Personally, I completely respect NOP's advice....it's proven quite sound throughout my time on this BB, that's all I need. For me, it matters not what NOP's FOO issues are and whether or not he wishes to discuss them, what matters for me is the fact that his track record for advice in the past has proven itself reliable IMPO.
I like Cobra, I think he often does have sound advice as well...although I think he wields that advice like a battering ram.
