Man o' Steel

[believing_isaiah43]

Lou, great analogy of the gravel pile and shovel. Thanks for that, it works for me over here too.

[chocolateeyes]

Plan a date with the wife, no R talk, just fun. Do something neither of you have done before to create new memories, new connections that don't have anything to do with your past.

I thought that was really good. I'm gonna do it!! I will remind her ahead of time of "no R talk," so she doesn't think it's another "heavy" ambush.

And yes, I need to dial down my expectations. I'm trying, I really am. The nighttime is the worst.

[chocolateeyes]

Lou,

I like the bit about the blisters and callouses. I'm associating "pain" with "no progress," and as your analogy points out to me, that's not necessarily the case. In fact, around the gym of course, we like to say "NO pain, no gain."

Something tells me "the gravel pile" is an image that entered my consciousness now -- LOL. Daily shovelling. I've also had "Dorie" from "Finding Nemo" in the back of my mind, singing "Just keep swimming, just keep swimming . . . "

To answer your question, the OM is single, and HE's been helping HER (yes, trainers have trainers). As confused as I've been throughout this, there is one thing of which I'm 100% certain, and that is that the relationship with OM is just a symptom of the problem; it's not the problem itself. HOWEVER, it is something that -- if it has progressed to the full EA phase (and I'm still not so sure it has), attacking it immediately, while I work on me, is imperative. There is also a problem that this keeps recurring, about once every 3 years, this "wanderlust" in my wife. What is she not getting from me and our marriage that makes these other guys so attractive to her??

And why, o why, does she push ME away, and then end up with some romantic void in her life that she has to look elsewhere to try and fill?

I'm not undertanding your "P.S." Are you saying you were a lucky bast$rd last nite?

[OG_Lou]

Dorie" from "Finding Nemo" in the back of my mind, singing "Just keep swimming, just keep swimming . . .

LOL, the grand daughters favorite video. I liked it and "Cars."

I'm not understanding your "P.S." Are you saying you were a lucky bast$rd last nite?
Boinking usually means sex Choc. It's been a month or so for us/me. I tried to have some "us time" o/w conflict, you know, waiting till the time was right, :eyeroll: since the end of last week, now 8 days past.

Thursday evening I decided to just do-it. BB had a few objections. The typical, "it would have been better if you/Lou would have ______________....." but that is normal.

The next day I told BB my blood pressure was down 5 points, I slept better, and I was more relaxed. She worries about her and my blood pressure that runs around 135/140 w/o meds. I showed her my 125 on the home BP meter. Yea, I know. According to BB, if I would forger about sex, the BP would go down naturally. Wanting sex just keeps it high. :eyeroll:

And why, o why, does she push ME away, and then end up with some romantic void in her life that she has to look elsewhere to try and fill?
Same here Choc.

The best I can guess is some people want the soup with out cutting up the ingredients and cooking it.

I have a hunch, wanting something a person doesn't have is somewhat normal. Maybe it is associated to our hunting gathering ancestry. We want more things. We want what looks good on the outside but don't know what is wrong on the inside. Same old same O is boring. Variety is exciting for a while till the downside bites you in the butt.

Like I said before, simple is good for me. For some people attention, status, things, etc are important.

I am helping (electrical, plumbing repairs) an older couple from church. The H has a serious medical condition. H & W are very nice. BB really admires the guy. He is so complimentary to everyone and BB eats the compliments up. Your W sounds similar.

... a problem that this keeps recurring, about once every 3 years, this "wanderlust" in my wife. What is she not getting from me and our marriage that makes these other guys so attractive to her??
My first thought, the OP doesn't have any demands a first and their is no baggage in a new R/friendship. New feels good till the expenses and repairs start showing up. Just my opinion.

Choc, if the tables were turned and it was you txting an OW, I can imagine your W hanging on to you for dear life.

One of my smart azz comments I had in my head only, was to go to the OM and say “You like my W? Pay off the tummy tuck, the BMW, the college fund for the 4 kids, buy her a new house, and pay for X, Y, and Z I bought for her in the last 5 years.”

I think the guy would have second thoughts about rescuing your W or seeing her as a plum ripe for picking. I don’t know what the OM sees or thinks. Adding the responsibility part to any A/overly involved friendship to my way of thinking should cool the fantasy.

It was my thought so don’t do it Choc. If your W ever got wind of it, she might think you think/feel, she is for sale. Like I said smart azz thoughts. Say 7th gradish?

Maybe that line of thinking (which I had going in to almost all of my R) kept me from having casual R’s with women/girls. Too many people think love is free/easy. It involves a lot of work, IYKWIM.

Lou

[Martelo]

Choc- I think like everyone here that you're handling this whole situation
so well, very impressed. The analogy of the gravel pile reminds me of a
story from Ajahn Brahm called "a truck load of dung" link "a truck load of dung".
While it doesn't pertain directly to your situation maybe you or others can find
something of value in it, the analogies did remind me of each other.

I think the two questions you ask are very important questions to ask,
and if I may let me take a swing at them.

1. What is she not getting from me and our marriage that makes these other guys so attractive to her??

She doesn't have to be mommy or wife to anyone she can be herself or at least
not perform any role other than the one she choses for herself. Perhaps a feeling
of agency apart from the family bonds, a rebellious teen type feeling of wanting to
stand away from the group and define self alone. The excitement of possibilities
and danger lifting her brain chemistry out of a low level depression maybe
"I can change everything" and that that will make me happy. Boosting her sense of
self esteem with validation from others tells her that she still has it, unfortunately
validation from others is like a drug you just need more of it to get high. She gets
an emotional charge a feeling from the situation that makes her feel "alive" in a
way that being "good" never did.

2. And why, o why, does she push ME away, and then end up with some romantic
void in her life that she has to look elsewhere to try and fill?

Sounds like a fear of intimacy and problems joining the romantic to the
familiar, the erotic and the matrimonial. In the book "he's scared she's scared"
the author talks about commitment phobias, and has some great insights about
active and passive avoidance of intimacy.
Author interview

and Choc what ever happens you can handle it.

[chocolateeyes]

HUMAN TOUCH

Bruce Springsteen

You and me we were the pretenders
We let it all slip away
In the end what you don't surrender
Well the world just strips away

Girl, ain't no kindness in the face of strangers
Ain't gonna find no miracles here
Well you can wait on your blesses my darlin'
But I got a deal for you right here

I ain't lookin' for praise or pity
I ain't comin' 'round searchin' for a crutch
I just want someone to talk to
And a little of that Human Touch
Just a little of that Human Touch

Ain't no mercy on the streets of this town
Ain't no bread from heavenly skies
Ain't nobody drawin' wine from this blood
It's just you and me tonight

Tell me, in a world without pity
Do you think what I'm askin's too much
I just want something to hold on to
And a little of that Human Touch
Just a little of that Human Touch

Oh girl that feeling of safety you prize
Well it comes at a hard hard price
You can't shut off the risk and the pain
Without losin' the love that remains
We're all riders on this train

So you've been broken and you've been hurt
Show me somebody who ain't
Yeah, I know I ain't nobody's bargain
But, hell, a little touchup
and a little paint...

You might need somethin' to hold on to
When all the answers, they don't amount to much
Somebody that you could just to talk to
And a little of that Human Touch

Baby, in a world without pity
Do you think what I'm askin's too much
I just want to feel you in my arms
Share a little of that Human Touch
Feel a little of that Human Touch
Give me a little of that Human Touch

[chocolateeyes]

Not a whole lot new going on here. My wife seems friendly enough, but still distant, as if we've discussed NOTHING, and it's really starting to pizz me off. Why doesn't this bother the chit out of her??? I'm dying inside, and she acts like there's nothing extraordinary going on whatsoever.

I'm trying to be patient, but I'd like to know WTH it is I'm looking for next, either "this would be a good thing" or "this would be, uh, not so good."

I've been thinking about this a lot: WHAT, exactly, is it that I'm LOOKING for in these next few days from my wife? I know what would be a BAD thing (I should have day/times options for first MC appt. tomorrow, if she balks at that, that would be a huge problem; or, if text messages with OM indicate that they're only being "careful" for now and buying time until my wife can convince me to separate; and a thousand other BAD things i can imagine, and would certainly recognize).... but what would be the GOOD things that I'm looking for from her next? This is gnawing at me. I wake up every day, hopeful that "progress" will be made, however small, and yet I can't define "progress." What is it that I'm looking for here? A self-exposure where she admits to me about the OM, and tells me she was a fool and shut that down? Some sort of "mea culpa" about her coldness and her distance? Simple kindnesses, god forbid in my love language, like a small touch or a held hand?

What??????????

[NOPkins]

Choc.

You will know what you are looking for when you see it. It will come in the form of a paradigm shift in her approach to everything. She will get worse or better, but as long as you do the things you are doing, it will NOT remain at station.

If you are waiting on her to voluntarily "come clean", just make sure that you don't hold your breath while you wait.

When she does "shift", then you will make your move.

Once that is done and emotions have somewhat normalized, you will negotiate your relationship from there.

There is your peek into the future.

No magic, just hard work.

-NOPkins-

[RedHeadWife]

Don't know, dude, but I do know you need to stop the negative self talk. Working on that myself and it ain't easy, I know.

Have you ready Divorce Remedy yet? You need to. It will give you a map for what you need to be doing from here.

You just need to continue to stay positive and love yourself (easier said than done), but also continue to just love her and show her that love.

Unfortunately, you have to just put yourself out there on a limb. If your M is what you want, you have to be willing to be the one who does all the work for awhile.

Continue to just talk lovingly to her, touch her when you walk by, etc. Act "as if" nothing is wrong.

[NOPkins]

Choc.

One other thing you have to remember, she is cruising on chemicals, and the secrets make it that much more fun. She is less concerned with what might hurt you or the kids and very concerned about maintaining her high. That's just the way it is.

We both know that hell is coming to Frogtown soon, so relax.

-NOPkins-