I can appreciate your decision not to go back to your W, that you are not ready to entertain such thoughts. But whether you intend to ever talk to your ex again or go find a new woman, the path you need to take is the same. That path is not the one you are on now.
I dont have the inclination or the resources to 'nurture' anyone, believe that petting the bunny sets a bad precedent, not to mention shows a lack of control over your attraction if you do that nonsense, and set that expectation right from the beginning. dont consider myself a good candidate for being a H. x, who I still consider to be a extremely intuitive and satisfactorily intelligent woman, was pretty adamant about that at the end of the R.
Pulling back into your shell is understandable. Just know what you are doing and don’t try to rationalize it as something else. This is the path I see you on now and it is a dangerous one. Don’t start building such self defeating thoughts, only to protect yourself. Face the pain, deal with it, get over it. You spent a lot of time and effort to help Chrome pull himself up, to be proud of himself, accept his shortcomings and fix those areas that need fixing and take pride in those areas where he excels. So why are you going down the path of self deprecation, on the road to where Chrome used to be?
Add to that, x may have started her toe testing the waters EA prior to our seperation, but only started the A after we were seperated. She found this very important to clarify when wanting to reconcil. Unless I interpreted incorrectly, I believe you said that was acceptable. When you are a serial monogamist, Im sure it makes perfect sense. Im not, so it doesnt.
OK, so your ex is trying to rationalize and minimize her affair, saying she didn’t really have an A until the separation. What else was she to say? That she was wrong, she was a bad person, she f*cked up, she should have trusted you, she should not have challenged your power and betrayed you? Yeah, that sounds good, but then, she would only be setting herself up for you to again “eat x alive like a struggling bleating gazelle.”
She has some sense of self protection. She’s not as dumb as you think. She knows you held all the power, that you were the alpha male, that she should not challenge you. But it seems to me that was not the model she wanted. That was your model. So she challenged you. But she has no power to challenge you. What else can she do to atone for her sin other than minimize it, saying she was only “toe testing the waters EA prior to our separation.” What else can she say? Would you have listened to a sincere apology? Would you have allowed her to make it up to you? Would you have allowed her to follow the same advice you give others here in trying to repair their marriage?
This discussion is VERY much about DBing. Your sitch may be in a stage more advanced than some of the newcomers, but your growth is every bit as relevant to them as any other thread on here. Pull down the façade for just a minute and take a good, hard, honest look and think about it. I do not mean to attack. I say all this out of honest concern for you.
Hmmmmmmmmm - what concerns me is this...whenever you drop out of here and into your "cave" you seem to come back with harsher and harsher reviews of the situatiion with your W and your part in it. I'm not sure what happens during the "cave" time but it seems a whole lot like what happens to me when I get quiet. Me quiet rarely leads to good things for myself and those around me. In my case, me chattering about aimless bs is my natural state. Yours is different but the end result is similar. Make no mistake - you are entitled to your time to reasses, live your life and think things over. Just be sure that the conclusions you reach are not a result of "stinkin thinkin".
FWIW - I don't disagee with your decision about your W. My personal code on infidelity goes something like this - If it is within the first five years - Goodbye, If there are no children to consider - Goodbye , If it is more than once - Goodbye, Otherwise - case by case. I know that sounds strange but I see early infidelity, recidivist infidelity and a few other things as being evidence of a weakness that wouldn't likely lend itself to a good marital recovery. The no kids thing - that is all about strings - fewer strings, less complex exit, both people can start over. IOW - everyone has their line in their own spot. I assume your W knew where the line was.
As for you, young man (I'm joining the wise cows) - how about you quit managing people and situations and just live a little. Take a lesson from Mojo (scary, I know) and revel a little. Revel in being the Captain of your own ship, getting to choose who your crew is - let some real life women into your inner circle - they might bite but I'm guessing that most of the wounds will be superficial. Personally, I sometimes wish I had taken some time after my D to just let a few men tell me how wonderful I am, how lovely, etc... Why? Because at least there would be fond memories that could hold me over while the one who said he would love me above all others ignores me.
As for me, I am enjoying the unconditional love of my small, very male, bundle of joy. He really does mostly love me due to his dependence on my breasts but heck - there are worse things to be loved for!
Funny how you and I see the same thing and posted at the same time….. I meant to say one other thing in my post and yours reminded me.
I used to think as you and Blackfoot, that once someone betrays you, move on an never look back. As practical advice, that makes sense because you cannot force someone to change if they are bound and determined not to change. Also, most people do not understand relationships or themselves to even know what to change.
Bunt on this board, with the knowledge so many have, I now only hold to this view for those who have real problems, like personality disorders or untreated hormonal imbalances, genetic problems, something like that. If a person is otherwise “normal” I think ALL relationship and personality problems are just a matter of education, conditioning, training, hard work and a TON on patience and tenacity.
So turning your back on a cheater might be the best practical move, but it is not one I believe in anymore. Even cheaters only cheat because of deeper issues. Cure those issues and the cheating stops. IMO, the issue is not whether they are serial cheaters, but whether both spouses have it in them to work on changing.
Would you have allowed her to follow the same advice you give others here in trying to repair their marriage?
See, that is an interesting question. It seems like most Alpha males have their boundaries in place (which is good) but those boundaries also may tell them "if she betrays me, that's it, I'm out." I just find it interesting that people like Nop and BF really seem to have honest concern and helpful advice for the people on this board but would not take that advice themselves. Am I misinterpreting? I guess it just bothers me somewhat. I highly respect these men, but the "Alpha traits" seem to work against them when it comes to saving a messed up M. Maybe that is why BF kept referring to himself not being M material. Most M's are going to have problems, and let's face it, many are going to face betrayal (A's, abandonement, whatever). It seems like there is a disconnect between supporting Alpha male traits and also learning to forgive/repair a M in crisis. Can you have it both ways? Seems to me an Alpha man is not even going to go down that road to possible recovery. Just reflecting/rambling. LFL
I KNOW that there are situations in which cheaters and their marriages can be turned around (I have seen it done) so I don't believe that I would leave in all situations. There are some where I feel that I would. I feel that in the case of repeat cheating, or cheating early in the marriage my staying would reflect a lot more about my own issues causing me to stay then "love" for the other. I would suspect my own motives as much as the other persons. Your point is well taken - most people go blindly into marriages and relationships and with education about themselves, their partner, relationships and with personal responsibility things can improve. Some people are almost "pushed" into cheating during the course of things. My line in the sand is mine - there are situations in which I would try to right things.
Cobra - ya know I'll bet you and I are on the same wavelength more than you can imagine. We've had our go arounds but I admire your sticking to your marriage and fighting for it.
What you state is exactly what I am seeing and it is that hypocrisy that irritates me too. That said, I think this double standard is in place for a reason, on that I can understand – it is a defense to avoid confronting pain, and to avoid giving up control which leads to confronting some sort of FOO fear. Both BF and Nop have revealed or discussed very little about their FOO (well BF has discussed his some in the past). Both have fared pretty well in their outlook on life, relationships, self esteem, career, etc., but the black hole of unresolved FOO still oozes out in everything they do, doesn’t it? You just can’t get away from it.
I think I am on the same wavelength with a lot more people on this board than may be apparent. I still react to issues that I read about, or get frustrated by some posts, and I let too much of that come out, which is what distances me from many of the posters here. Still, a little at a time….
GEL. Hows your wrist? full recovery? did you put down some nerf in the corral? heheh. got a seat belt on that pony now? LOL.
Hi BF, the wrist is fully healed with complete flexibility restored :-) As for the arena and Stormy...I am considering having the entire thing padded LOL. Actually I'm considering selling him as I know he's going to be too much for my H to handle, and I simply do not have the time to work with him as he needs...we really need a fully trained horse at this time for us to enjoy. Stormy would make someone an excellent horse though who has the time to devote to him. He's clever, smart and quick...which is a great combination for a cutting horse, but add stubborn to that mix (as he is) and you have dangerous combination for a novice like my husband.
Cobra wrote:"What you state is exactly what I am seeing and it is that hypocrisy that irritates me too"
Hypocrisy? What part of helping someone in trouble is hypocrisy? Funny, it appears to be the right thing to do to me?
That's like saying I have to be a Buddhist before I can stop and help a Buddhist that is laying on the ground bleeding out. What the hell happens to that person if there are no other Buddhist about?
I help people because I want to. My personal reasons for dumping a marriage because of infidelity are just that, my personal reasons. It sure as hades doesn't mean that I can't help someone else out that wants to save their marriage from an affair, or be good at doing just that.
Calling something that you don't understand, "hypocrisy" is illogical. You might want to ask someone why they do what they do, first.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
My comment was just my opinion to LFL’s statement:
I just find it interesting that people like Nop and BF really seem to have honest concern and helpful advice for the people on this board but would not take that advice themselves.
That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with you or anyone else helping others.
It sure as hades doesn't mean that I can't help someone else out that wants to save their marriage from an affair, or be good at doing just that.
Yep, I agree.
My personal reasons for dumping a marriage because of infidelity are just that, my personal reasons.
Yep, agree with this too, just as for the same reason I agree with LFL.
