Agreed. One more thing, they are also afraid that a counselor might not only help them see that changing their mind is OK to do, might expose what THEY are doing and who they are hurting BUT ALSO make them look hard at themselves and WHY they are doing it all in the first place. In my situation, my wife is so afraid to face up to her hurtful past that she is letting our lives get crushed, our kids lives to change forever (and not in a good way) and a complete breakdown of what COULD be a great family, all because she's so messed up in her head and is afraid to take it on.
Me: 39 WAW: 40 S10, D7, S6 Bomb #1 - 12-24-06: Move out (ILYBNILWY - admitted '05 PA) Move back: 3-2-07 (W: I still want to be married to you) Bomb # 2 - 4-11-07: (W: Can't do this - never loved you) Move out again: 4-29-07 Dark: 6-8-07
Your sitch sounds a lot like mine was. W was closed, her heart was at peace with her decision to D, she did'nt want to see any more C's. We went to three different C's, and each one pegged the problems pretty quick. Basically, my heart and mind were open to change, constructive counseling; but my W pretty much defended and argued and stood her ground. She's a fighter, will defend her positions even if they make no sense sometimes. Anyway, C was a very stressfull thing for her, right or wrong, that's just the way it was.
At first I judged her as being weak, hiding, not willing to see her own faults. But the more I let go, worked to love her unconditionally, the more I realized she's just not strong enough or able to take it. She had low self esteem from childhood and the C just drug her down even more. She would have let our M end before going to any more C. So I finally got smart, and stopped pushing, stopped judging, and started loving her like 1 Corinthians: 13. It made an immediate difference, but it took several years before her heart changed enough to give our M another shot.
Looking back, she has changed immensely. Overtime she's been more able to follow her C's suggestions. It just took her a long time to process the information. Some things suggested, like "just do it", have'nt worked out like the books say, other things have. We've been living together about 16 months now, that after 4 years of separation.
When I pressured my W to change, to go to C, etc. she just moved further and further away from me. Personally, I could never counsel my W. Anything coming out of my mouth that even remotely resembles counseling is rejected for rejections sake. There have been exceptions though. After time we built a tremendous freindship and she does ask my opinion on personal matters sometimes. But I only offer counseling when I'm invited to.
Hope this helps.
God Bless,
COG
My Story http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...&Number=660444&page=2#Post660444
So I finally got smart, and stopped pushing, stopped judging, and started loving her like 1 Corinthians: 13. It made an immediate difference, but it took several years before her heart changed enough to give our M another shot.
Funny enough, a few weeks after the bomb, I bought a simple silver ring that I wear to this day that quotes 1 Cor 13 - Faith, Love, Hope (and Charity). Added to that a tatoo of the chinese symbols for Faith, PATIENCE, Love.
This part is right on. When we can love our spouses - as broken and confused (or NOT) as they are - but really love them unconditionally and let them go, it can do amazing things to the R - and US. My sitch was the same - we started to build this great "friendship" and she started wanting more of it. That, coupled with GAL'g and working on how to make myself more attractive to her - and being a man about it was the magic combination of elements that stopped our D.
And knowing when to council and when to not as COG says below can be a big deal. To stop suffocating and to just be.
Thanks again Frank for posting your 6 observations. And, yeah, I'm wild eye'd friggin' crazy....what you got?
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
When we can love our spouses - as broken and confused (or NOT) as they are - but really love them unconditionally and let them go, it can do amazing things to the R - and US. My sitch was the same - we started to build this great "friendship" and she started wanting more of it. That, coupled with GAL'g and working on how to make myself more attractive to her - and being a man about it was the magic combination of elements that stopped our D.
And knowing when to council and when to not as COG says below can be a big deal. To stop suffocating and to just be.
That is exactly on target and what I mean to get across.
Like COG said also " the more I realized she's just not strong enough or able to take it."
Excellent point. Our R turned for the better when I quit taking my W's crap, and began standing up for myself. That's one area that I do counsel her. When she's out of line, being rude, petty, etc. I don't put up with that anymore. I counsel her alright, but I do it in the spirit of love, support, and encouragement, not from hurt and anger. I look her in the eye, and let her know her behaivior is not OK with me, but I do it in a way that is not confrontational, and does not put her on the defensive. I pick the right time, place, and attitude first. Our R has grown leaps and bounds by being honest and accepting of each other.
God Bless,
COG
My Story http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...&Number=660444&page=2#Post660444
Excellent point. Our R turned for the better when I quit taking my W's crap, and began standing up for myself. That's one area that I do counsel her. When she's out of line, being rude, petty, etc. I don't put up with that anymore. I counsel her alright, but I do it in the spirit of love, support, and encouragement, not from hurt and anger. I look her in the eye, and let her know her behaivior is not OK with me, but I do it in a way that is not confrontational, and does not put her on the defensive. I pick the right time, place, and attitude first.
Yep Yep Yep. This is turning out to be a good discussion.
Wow. As Frank knows my situation is dealing with a WAW that I have LET walk all over me. I had my reasons, mostly making excuses for her because of a lot of personal pain she holds in, but at end of the day, it has not served either of us well. After ten years of it, I finally just in the past few days began letting her know that her behavior towards me is unacceptable and I will not tolorate it. Like COG, I try to phrase that in a non-confrontational manner and hope it comes across that way. She tends to be defensive about it though and non-apologetic. I trust it will become easier for both of us over time. Since we have kids and no matter the outcome of a potential D, she will need to treat me with more respect in the future. I will demand it, and I have earned it.
I like seeing that COGs R turned after implementing this new way of being. For me, I know my wife looked at my allowing this behavior as a sign of me having little self-respect, which caused her to lose respect for me, which caused her to fall out of love with me. Brutal.
Taking STRs example, I intend to love unconditionally and let go. From their, I pray that our path will lead down the road to friendship and divert a divorce.
Thank you for showing me that this can and does work.
DNQ
Me: 39 WAW: 40 S10, D7, S6 Bomb #1 - 12-24-06: Move out (ILYBNILWY - admitted '05 PA) Move back: 3-2-07 (W: I still want to be married to you) Bomb # 2 - 4-11-07: (W: Can't do this - never loved you) Move out again: 4-29-07 Dark: 6-8-07
I just read the link to your story. Unbelievable! Your patience, growth and outlook is truly inspiring, especially to those of us that are just starting on this journey. Reading the paths of patience taken by you and Frank make me believe that it is possible to bring love back from the abyss. It starts with ME. Like you, I was recently convinced that the problems all lie with my wife. Only in the last couple weeks has the light bulb really gone off in my head and it has made me re-examine everything, which is the first step for me in doing what I need to do. Thank you for sharing.
DadNotQuitting posted this to his thread and I want to make sure it's here also.
"From David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man" (thanks Frank for turning me on to this - where was it three years ago?)
"when you woman seems to have an emotional problem, you want to know why. You want to know what is upsetting her. You assume there is a specific cause. You want to know what triggered her bad mood so you can fix the situation"
"questioning is probably making her mood worse......90% of a woman's emotional problems stem from feeling unloved...... so don't stand back analyzing her, like a doctor analyzing a patient. Give her your love - the same love that is motivating your questioning - immediately and unmistakably"
"your analysis and attempts to fix her will just piss her off more""
I would have to agree on that also COG - our relationship has changed immensely since I stopped taking crap from H. I was just tired of his redirecting the blame always on me. As soon as I would bring up an issue that he didn't like the table would be turned (definitely his way of deflecting - which even the C told him numerous times)
Once I put my foot down (gently I might add) it was like he started respecting me even more. There is no confrontation, just a gentle reminder here and there that I won't be treated like that anymore than he would be
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
