I also think she is trying to make choc feel guilty because she herself is feeling guilty. This is called projection ( she tosses HER feelings onto you) and it will worsen until she's ready to look at herself.
And I recognize the " I am a bad W and don't deserve you" stuff as being a combo of self pity and depression (BTDT). That means " I am feeling overwhelmed and I want to be off the hook, so I'll make you feel sorry for me. Then I don't have to deal."
There's this voice in the back of my head that keeps saying "You fool! YOU are the one who's been sex- and affection-starved for most of your marriage, NOW she's cheating on you, and YOU want to SAVE THE MARRIAGE??? What a joke!"
I don't post much around here this year, choc, but I've followed you for some time. This that you have said is basically what I hung my hat on after my H's A for MONTHS. Emotions and entitlement, after such an ironic rejection (i.e. YOU had an A? It should have been ME, since I always wanted to ML and you never did, etc)
My H left his A in January 2006 and never looked back (amazing in retrospect, and OW lives across the country thank God), but I gnawed on the above bone OVER and OVER and OVER, internally and out loud. To the detriment of the reparation of my M. We are still together, but there has been MUCH preventable damage post-A because of my EMOTIONS running my actions.
I post to encourage you to hold on to what you KNOW, not what you FEEL (damned near impossible, I understand). You are getting such fabulous advice, and I am so SO SO impressed that you 'got it' and put feet to your fears and ACTED. and acted WELL.
Do your damnedest to hit "Pause" when emotions of "Fcuk THIS" threaten to derail you. It's very hard to get Big Picture perspective at this stage of the game, but you are miles in front of where I was at this point so I have great faith in your ability to handle it IF you keep looking outside of your raging emotions.
I also completely get the feeling of being given a gift from God and not protecting and appreciating it. SO get that. Just don't dwell on that (as LFL advised) and put yourself in the guilt, pussyfooting hole with it. Acknowledge and move on from here. I am a wallower, so I know of which I speak.
Didn't mean to ramble, just want to encourage you from my corner as well.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
I think any insight you can get into her FOO the better, especially if she is starting to think about it herself, and then talk to you about it. It sounds like the low level bickering in her past has created some issues for her. I read in that book about Adult Attachment Disorder that even mild trauma can create problems if it occurs continuously over long periods of time. It’s like the person just can’t get away from it and the person learns to create defenses to deal with it.
Then the grandmother’s way of handling things does not help at all. That sounds like shame-based behavior, which is all about avoidance. Shame also creates low self esteem, so a person focuses on what they do wrong, rather than take pride in what they do right. But it seems your W is trying to buck this trend somehow. At least by working out and focusing on her appearance, she is trying to rise above some of that self hatred. Better than gaining 100 pounds.
She’s caught in her own negative reinforcing cycle. Unfortunately I see you as part of that cycle (which makes sense because that is why she married you). She must want attention, love, to feel good about herself (the opposite of what she saw in her parents) or she never would have gotten into shape and become attracted to the OM in the first place. But the old patterns are hard to break. She is accustomed to emotional distance, trained by grandma to be a martyr, to stuff her feelings and find her own happiness. She grew up in a narcissistic setting where no one else was concerned about her happiness. Her parents were too busy arguing and trying to force each other to make them happy. No happiness for W, so she has to make do herself.
Fast forward to you. You fall into the victim mode yourself, withdraw, focus on your needs. She goes without, again. Nothing new to her, that’s all she knew her whole life. Again, if she is going to be happy, she needs to find it herself. No one will do it for her. No one can be trusted. Not her parents, not her grandma, not you, and though she may not realize it yet, not the OM (no matter how nice he may actually be). The loss of your sister-in-law only reinforces her loss issues. The ONLY safe haven is the children. They love her unconditionally with no strings attached. Their moving out is a SERIOUS loss for her.
So is it any wonder that she is confused? Of course she is. She has no idea what love is supposed to be, how it should feel, how she should act, how she should expect others to act. You put someone like that up on a pedestal, and they will REALLY feel the pressure. What are they supposed to do? They have no clue! They want love, but it becomes engulfing. What to do? RUN!!!
As you might guess, I pull a lot of this from my own sitch. So I might be wrong on many parts, but I see similarities. This is a very scary thing for her to face. If my hypothesis is right, the bottom line is that she is scared, plain and simple. She wants and needs protection and comfort, but does not know what that is when it is offered to her. So the allure of the OM is tempting. She cannot recognize the danger.
Try to see things from her POV and it might help you in talking with her. It will also help her to hear you, and you to hear her. Then get to a counselor ASAP!!! You may not be a FOO guy now, but I bet you will know FOO inside and out before your M can be repaired. Pick up some books. Try to understand where she is coming from. That will help to validate her.
YOU picked a bad time to bring this up? So when is there a "good" time? When the kids go to college, when they get married, after they have had all their kids, when you retire. Plezzzzzzzzz - there is no such thing as a good time.
This is just another way of deflecting - another pretty common tactic of avoidance
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I just wanted to pop in very quickly to give you kudos. I thought that was an excellent post.
This is something I've been investigating primarily in terms of my own life but I see patterns in others.
It's called "toxic shame" and it occurs in FOOs where there is a hypercritical environment and the child is constantly criticized.
Or in males, the father is completely emotionally and/or physically detached while the boy is under the harsh yoke of the mother, causing him to become passive himself with low self-esteem.
Or, as in Chrome's case, the father is a real SOB type abuser and the boy feels worthless with no healthy male guidepost. He grows up and his need for validation from some source (usually a female since males by culture usually don't open up to other males to soothe them). Boom. EA turns to PA and everyone is left hurting.
That's a male example but works same with females.
A female who is not being loved, cherished, or positively enforced by parents is left only to her own devices... soothes herself via shopping, addictions, attention from males... and generally expresses some noticeable narcissistic traits. And the emotional walls are firmly in place.
Gotta skeedaddle...
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
LFL made a very important point to you regarding guilt.
You have admitted to your part of the problem, and you are facing the result head on. Good deal.
Now, until you reach the recovery phase in your relationship, lose the guilt, and don't mention it to your wife again. The reason for this is simple - from this point on, EVERYTHING will be blamed on you by her. Everything that has ever been wrong with the marriage, even things that you have never even considered, things that you have never even heard of, will be your fault. Allowing your guilt to further feed the entitlement monster is just that, fuel for the engine. So don't do it.
You have lots of good folks pulling for you. I am counting on you to hold it together and continue to be the hero.
You do this thing right and you become the hope of a better future for some of the people that are posting to you, and some that are lurking and just following the story as well. Most importantly, your children will see something rise up in you that they have never witnessed before. They won't know what to think of it at first, they may never even define it, but the positive change in you will impact them for the rest of their lives. You will never be perfect, and they don't expect you to be, but I promise you, they will never forget witnessing the birth of a real man.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Wow. Cobra, your post was excellent. A lot of it resonated with me and I think I've gotten another clue about myself. Thank you. Same to you, Stigmata. Very insightful.
NOPkins, your post was INSPIRING. And I'm not even a man.
YOU picked a bad time to bring this up? So when is there a "good" time? When the kids go to college, when they get married, after they have had all their kids, when you retire. Plezzzzzzzzz - there is no such thing as a good time.
This is just another way of deflecting - another pretty common tactic of avoidance
I started wondering today if I SHOULDN'T have waited, just a tad, cuz of D18's graduation. But then I thought about the calendar: Graduation. D20 & D18 moving out end of May. June? Father's Day. Early July? Her birthday. Mid-July? My birthday.
It will ALWAYS be something. It was time to DO something, and as much as I really did hate springing it on her, there's no question that it not only had to be done, but it had to be done now.
