Her discussion with you last night was mostly vapor in order to justify forthcoming behavior.
That thought occurred to me too. Also that her loving and kindness, instead of the rage that I expected, is actually NOT good, as I have felt that she is using that as well as as way to pre-justify what she may decide to do.
Choc wrote: ----------------------------------------------------------- But it is!! I keep girding my loins, and getting the courage up to "1st", send the e-mail, then "2nd", talk to her face-to-face, and each time I feel like I've won a victory, I'm then faced with her deceit and her obvious attraction for this other, YOUNGER guy. I think I start to get ahead, both tactically and emotionally, and then I'm kicked in the balls and I lose the ground I've just gained trying to take the hill. -----------------------------------------------------------
That's called a fight. You get up and start swinging again.
You can't get in a fight and not occasionally get your nose bloodied or your lip busted. That's just a part of it.
You haven't lost anything yet. You aren't down for the count. You just took a tough first round. Go to your corner and catch your breath then back at it when the bell rings.
Oh, and see what you can do to lose the lease on the sporty car. Get something you can afford, like a minivan. No need to finance a play-mobile. Do it nicely.
Start pulling the props, especially if you are strapped for money. Remember, proactive, not reactive.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
An interesting comparison. A little while ago you were saying "I hope she has an A so that it gives me moral high ground." Now you are saying you want to kill the man who is having an A with your W.
Somewhere in-between those two is the right path. The first was fueled by self-pity, the second by rage. I think the best thing you can do is try to focus on thinking logically. Your feelings are going to be all over the place for awhile. Your feelings can guide you, but don't let them lead you.
I don't know if this will be comforting or not, but I'll say it anyway. I don't know your W well, but it sounds like her A is of the same general type as mine, the kind that Harley talks a lot about, where it just sort of "happens." If so, know that this type of A is dominated by depression and confusion, not maliciousness or hatred. I don't think in her heart she wants to hurt you, she is just really confused and neck deep in rationalizations. That is not to say she isn't doing something wrong, she absolutely is.
The bad thing about this kind of A, is the other kind (malicious) is easier to resolve. Her partially self-imposed confusion is going to be hard to wade out of.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"(Remember, I had given her a Valentine's Day card, and wrote something really nice in it, and she said "You make me sound better than I am.") It's almost like she has this self-sabotage wish whereby she longs for something that she KNOWS is stupid, impetuous, and dangerous, just so she can show everyone "see? I'm not the person you thought I was," and bring herself back down to mere mortality so she can live her normal life in peace without so many expectations."
CE. Remember a few months ago our convo about your W's "this is so huge" comment about her flat stomach? It really stood out to me back then that her behavior is from someone who needs a tremendous amount of external validation. Low self-esteem. A feeling of internal unworthiness.
Have you ever read Happy Giant's old posts? the above from you could have been written by him, honest to Allah.
And he was exacerbating his problems by trying harder and harder to put his W back up on the pedestal he had carved for her.
I had to deal with this same type woman. She even said something way way back when we first started seeing each other that she finds herself unceremoniously dumping Ms who put her on a pedestal. I had blown it off and its remembrance came back to haunt me. I turned from an indifferent aloof emotionally unavailable lone wolf to putting her at the center of my world.
During her weak attempt to test my waters last year she said something to the effect that "sometimes I am my own worst enemy." She, like your W, is a self-saboteur.
I resisted divulging this, as I feel one need not divulge every single part of his/her life on a public forum, but x was victim of sexual abuse at the hands of a male monster relative as a child.
I'm guessing Happy Giant's W's FOO with local boys (and probably even before) also is why she has such self-hatred.
This is not to say Mrs. Choc suffered the same sexual abuse fate as a girl, just that something in her FOO makes her say things like x said to me after her A: "You deserve much better than me."
I didn't know about her past until well into the R and felt I would be a real chit if I were to turn tail and head for the hills-- even though I knew staying might cause me a potential pain sledghammer down the road (which it did unfortunately).
That's partly why I was afraid, because of her apparent low self worth, of you drawing too much attention to how wonderful you thought your W was through lots of gifts and attention-getting love fare. Not to mention it was so out of character for the old grumpy Choc. Thankfully you handled it quite nicely with just flowers and a very nice email that wasn't all mushy and grabby. I was holding my breath on that one.
You're right. These are her issues. And it's her job to figure them out and not give you half a wife. Just be there for her yet be firm in what you will/won't tolerate from her in terms of disrespecting you and your R. She owes it to both herself and to your family to figure out why she has such a low self-opinion and how to redeem herself.
Finally, as for the lying. One more comment.
Your W is lying because she needs to buy herself time. It's not out of maliciousness IMO. This is the ONLY way she can stall long enough to figure out what she wants to say to you from her heart that will help clear her own confusion and lessen the hurt on you in the process.
Remember that.
Weird isn't it? It's both selfish and selfless at the same time.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Coupled with all of this self-doubt is the knowledge that a loving, stable family life that makes her feel secure is one of the biggest cards that I have to potentially play, and yet our finances are a mess . . .
Hmmm... I was in *exactly* this position almost 12 months ago. My W was heavily lost in an EA with a younger guy, and I was holding the stable family card yet our finances were shot, too. I don't have too much advice to give (as I'm sure I did everything the very wrong way) although I can share my story briefly...
I fought and fought and fought for my W as hard as I could until I began to think whether it was all worth it. I wondered where it was all getting me - all this positive action when she didn't even really appear to want me to fight for her.
I turned a big, blind corner there - I think I actually said to her that that was it... that I wasn't going to fight for her anymore because it was becoming clear to me that I wasn't what she wanted. I truly saw a future for myself without her and I was close to being excited about it.
And you know, once she saw that in me (I mean REALLY saw that in me) I believe she realised that she was about to lose me for good and we started to swing the whole situation around. Admittedly, my other thread shows that normal service hasn't quite resumed just yet, but I believe it's only a matter of time, and right now things are better than they have been in a long, long time.
But part of me still feels a tiny pang of loss - not over her, but of that exciting future without her that I glimpsed.
Anyhoo, what I guess I'm trying to say is keep fighting until you can fight no more... and that's the point where you'll truly discover where your life is gonna take you.
And whatever happens, rememeber that YOU will be fine.
Or something. (Sheesh, just tell me to shut up anytime! ;o) )
I don't know if this will be comforting or not, but I'll say it anyway. I don't know your W well, but it sounds like her A is of the same general type as mine, the kind that Harley talks a lot about, where it just sort of "happens." If so, know that this type of A is dominated by depression and confusion, not maliciousness or hatred. I don't think in her heart she wants to hurt you, she is just really confused and neck deep in rationalizations.
I think that's an important perspective. It's why Choco needs real tough boundaries, starting with covering his financial etc. azz and laying out what is a dealbreaker.
In his last exchange with her he asked if she thinks he will hurt or leve her. She said no, I knows you wouldn't hurt me or leve me.
Choc: Good to the first part. Bad to second.
Yes you will if it comes to it. A man has limits. And when she sees that boundary she will tremble.
PS. I apologize for bringing in what may be behind her 20 years of emotional walls. Goes right to the back burner. Just prepare yourself to hear and see the worst from her. She's dangling over a crevasse and you and OM are pulling from both sides.
Now EAT EAT EAT. You need the fuel.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
That's a REALLY good post -- thanks. You're very wise.
I have definitely done this -- put my wife up on a pedestal. For the first time last nite, I can see how that wasn't a good thing. (I did tell her, tho, that I only complimented her so much to try to please her, that I certainly knew she wasn't perfect. I told her "Look, I know you've got 10 great qualities an 10 not-so-great ones, and yeah, I would always give you a lot of praise about the 10 great ones, in an effort to build up love deposits. But I do NOT think you're perfect!").
My daughters now do this too -- my wife has the three closest adults in her life trying to please her all the time, and cater to her, and make sure she is happy. And in the process, she ain't happy at all, because it's only fueled her self-loathing that she's so flawed.
CHOC!!!! This "new" sitch has just been going on for a few days -- you don't know that she isn't going to do the "right thing."
Get back to where you were -- working on you and how YOU are going to make the M better. Quit dwelling on the A stuff and the negative.
If you keep dwelling, you are going to continue to be angry and that's not going to help. If anything, it's going to push her away -- the direction you don't want her to be going.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Choc, I know what you are feeling right now! Although you knew your marriage had troubles, your spouse actually having an EA/PA is more than your mind could comprehend. You were praying that your gut was wrong!
I had clues that my H was involved with someone else, but when confronted, he lied to my face for over a month. That has definately been the hardest part to realize that not only would your spouse cheat, but then lie repeatedly to you to cover it up. I couldn't eat or sleep for 2 months, but everyone is right you need to take care of yourself and be mentally and physically strong now- you can't fall apart!
Our MC has put it in perspective for me which has helped. When people choose to have an affair they are acting similar to an insecure adolescent. They truly don't think thru the consequences of destroying their marriage and family. Their short term satisfaction is driven by a false high that makes them oblivious to the real world. When they get caught it takes them awhile to comprehend the reality of the situation and they will lie repeatedly to deny the painful truth of what they have done. It is actually a defense mechanism that may seem totally out of character for them. We are left wondering what else they have been lying about, but the answer is probably just this pathetic situation.
I have also learned that when you push, belittle, attack them it gives them a reason to fight back and defend themselves, you sure don't want that! I have found after 3 months of this that when I backed off(nearly impossible to do)they seem to come to reality a bit. It is the hardest thing to do, but remember you are the bigger person here. Don't let her actions make you feel bad about yourself, this truly is not about you, it is about her and her dissatisfaction with herself.
