LFL'S Next Thread

[LustForLife]

Not really. I guess, because this is my second marriage and I've already BTDT

Oh, I did not know this was a 2nd M. I have read some interesting research on multiple M's and it seems like people either never fix their own problems and continue to D many more times, or they fix their own stuff and find a happy 2nd M, or they are so petrified of having yet another failed M that they stay in an unhappy M because as you stated "I don't want to have to start all over again." Not that you are choosing the thrid option there, just throwing out some sociological research (which I tend to do now and then).

I just feel I have a heck of a lot more to lose than to gain from leaving. And, if I have to trade all I have now just for sex, sorry, it's not worth it to me, regardless of the fact I am HD

I feel like I would have a heck of a lot more to lose too. So I guess that is good. I just have some HD days where I want to scream. But they pass. The problem is that they always come back.
LFL

[LustForLife]

My W has learned to hold her tongue a little more now, which helps a lot. But underneath this need to be honest is still a lot of fear, insecurity, anger and resentment, KWIM? Its ironic that honesty can become passive aggression.

Hmm...that is probably very true Cobra. I think I did use this honesty as a way to lash out. I knew full well it would hurt him but I did it anyways, justifying it, that at least it was the truth. Sometimes honesty is not always the best policy.
LFL

[LustForLife]

Has he read Deida or Eldredge's Wild at Heart or any "man" type books?

Lol! My H would never read those books.
I can't even believe he cracked open SSM. Only got to the first Chapter or two and said it was "too upsetting" to read.

I might guess your H has a dominant mother and passive detached father. Lack of assertiveness is fostered many times by an overbearing mother who is trying to take on both the role of the mother and the assertive/aggressive guidance needed by a strong father or a mentor group of male elders.

Bingo!

I think at this point since you didn't blow it off and engaged OM that H needs to see the "sweetheart and total hottie" lines and decide how to respond to OM. It may also allow him to be possessive and a bit more assertive.

I hear ya. But I would bet the fram he will say something along the lines of "just delete it." He would NEVER confront om, no way hosey.
LFL

[Heywyre]

I have read some interesting research on multiple M's and it seems like people either never fix their own problems and continue to D many more times, or they fix their own stuff and find a happy 2nd M, or they are so petrified of having yet another failed M that they stay in an unhappy M

This is hardly the case. The first M ended due to my H, not me. He just said one day, after 17 years of marriage, "I want a divorce" and there was no discussion, no counselling (except once - but that was a sign of weakness in his eyes) and no compromising.

This R was totally the opposite of my first M. My H is very supportive of everything I do, I come first in his life (believe it or not) and he constantly brags about me to others - its almost embarassing at times. He is a very loving and compassionate man, just a few of the very many qualities he possesses

Yes, he had 2 As - but he/we are dealing with a whole other aspect of betrayal (Madonna/Whore complex - see my thread) and it has absolutely nothing to do with me or the problems in our marriage. Other than that one issue, we are unbelieveably compatible (C's words not mine). So, no it is not because I am more willing to put up with it than be alone. I don't fear being alone, I did quite well as a single mother when I got divorced the first time and I am very well established career wise and financially, even more so, to do it now but I chose not to.

[Stigmata]

LFL--

So instead of lazily skimming, I actually went through your locked thread. Should have done so previously before I commented but I'm not in my previous up all night manic emotional turmoil lately.

I'm glad you are using your threads to journal. And I know you don't intend for OP to comment on every little thought you've been having. So hang tight, girly-girl. I'm about to take you through what I saw as one bumpy ride in that last thread.

Chin strap on? Good. Away we go


"He has made great strides since the bomb and our reconciliation. I am realizing more and more my part in this mess and I find that the respect factor is
probably right up there at the top of the list. I was lacking respect for him. I could still improve my respect for him. It's a process of course. He hurt
me very badly but I guess I have hurt him many times over the years as well. Just in smaller doses. He just saved his resentment for the grand finale.
But it's water under the bridge now. I am tired of living in that past. I want to have great love and respect and desire for my H."

Man. This is where I nearly gave you a standing ovation.

"He is much more assertive in some areas but still no where near
what I would call an assertive person. He is kind, understanding, respectful, loving. He wants to work on re-igniting the SL but that is a constant struggle
that has always been there since day one.
When he found out about the EA (which I'm not really sure was an EA) but regardless, the R with Chrome, he wsa upset but very understanding. He made some
comment like "That somewhat evens the playing field at least." I knew he meant it in a good way and he was right. I felt like we had both really F-ed up
and now could start over."

Holy canoli. What respect you show here for H. And look, even open vulnerable communication and accountability to your part as well. WTG.

"Somewhat" evens the playing field? Does he mean he feels he is still in the one-down position for his leaving you? Do you realize if so this is a big reason why he might be hesitant to order you around, shake his head disapprovingly at your sexy outfits with the girls night out, and tell you to fork over your passwords? (I'm being a bit facetious here, yes. Odds are these tests are in your head only and he's completely in the dark to them)

"H and I are always affectionate. We hold hands out in public, hug, that type of thing. He always treats me with respect. Even during the S, he never said
a bad word about me. Blamed himself. That type of thing.
Re: affection, that affection has never been an indicator of sexual desire it seems.
He also said that he felt we were really in a good place in the M now and he was so happy.
I can't believe that a few changes in my own attitude made the whole R shift so much..."

Hmm, yeah, and this newest change in attitude is shifting it again... negatively.

"...But it really worked. Probably because I was the one unwilling to fully commit like you said Nop and now he surely senses a change in me for the better. He has been busting his butt to rebuild the M since we reconciled and now I am putting in as much effort as him.
I guess the point is that it almost seems easy once the two people get their sh*t together. But if one person is dragging their heels, it can seem a monumental
problem to overcome."

Ouch. Boy does he have his hands full. Senses a change in you for the better so he tries harder to please you and busts his butt.

Now he possibly senses a change for the worst and is probably wondering how to tack into your shifting winds.

"Not sure what people can take from this tale but I think one of the main factors is Respect. I was lacking it for my H and now I have it in abundance.
That has totally shifted my attitude towards him, the M, and the SL.
So I guess I would say work on rebuilding respect before all else and the sexual R will follow.

There's that "shift" word again.

"H and I are still in a really great place. Very affectionate, emotionally close, just happy overall.
Sex is still not that different in terms of frequency but when we do have sex, it is really so much better than in the past.
And I am quite certain a large part has just been my attitude.
But also, H is expressing himself much more freely, especially in the sexual arena. He actually said he wanted a "blow job" yesterday. That is so not his
style so I am glad to see he is getting out of his own comfort zone. And no, we did not get to do the deed because of the myriad of other issues going
on with kids, illness, the list goes on. But it didn't even matter. It was more him Wanting to do it that made me happy. He has sexual desire like any
other man. How about that. News to me. The way he is different than some men is that he needs to feel good about the R to Want to have the sex. And I guess
that is pretty healthy."

Damned straight it's healthy. Needs to feel good about the R. "A large part has just been my attitude." But OM makes you channel resentment over what you want from a SL; along with remembering 2004. Another attitude shift for the negative.

"Update:
Things are going great in the LFL household. We had an amazing sexual encounter on Saturday night, about 11pm. Unfortunately, I woke up about two hours
later vomiting.
Of course H had to joke, "so let's see, the last thing that happened before you barfed was we had sex, hmmm" lol.
And no I am not preggo. That ship has sailed. I think I caught a 24 hour bug or something. Feel ok now."

Wow. Amazing sexual encounter?? So it IS possible to feel that between you and H. Hmmm.

"...my best friends just told me she is getting separated (by her choice), and I am feeling just so tired of the monotony. I think I look for trouble just
to make my life a little more interesting, a little more passionate, a little more...something."

Yes. I used to call college girls like this, "drama queens." Boy, were they a PITA to date. Always looking for trouble. This best friend's decision to S. Did this spark a little what-if envy in you? Don't answer that. I can guess.

GEL said to LFL:

"I honestly don't ever think I'll be able to stop maintaining this part of our marriage...but that's ok because when I look at it as maintenance it makes
perfect sense to me that I would continue."

This is why I also respect GEL tremendously. What an incredibly differentiated woman. Not allowing her H's own internal SL/assertiveness obstacles reflect, injure, depreciate her own view of her F sexiness and sexual desireability. So, having that understood, goes to work nudging her H's lack of assertiveness. Why? Because she thinks he's worth keeping since no R is without its problems.

Hm, I wonder if god forbid any of us were seriously maimed and lost the total use of our dcks our Fs would still keep us around? Zoinks!

Back to LFL:

"Is that something you can tell your H, "I do love you, but the lack of passion/connection is just about killing me.""

Yes, better than stewing in resentment. And I seem to remember that amazing sexual encounter and connection comment right about now.

"I am having thoughts of just escaping, ending the whole M. It is still just fantasy but it is disturbing to me."

Good. It's when it doesn't become disturbing when you and your H need to worry. I know, I know, LFL. There are many many things in my life I'd just like to run away from... but, sigh, I can't. I thought life was supposed to be fair. (pushing out bottom lip, shoving hands in pockets, kicking stone with toe)

So it's official. You and H are escapists or that's at least your strong first instinct.

"I WANT a H that wants to have sex because he likes it, needs it, wants it. That is not the case. I feel he is doing it with
more gusto (if not more frequency) because this has been part of our reconciliation process. But already I see him slipping into old patterns (myself included)
and I just don't know how much more effort I have to give."

I highly doubt he doesn't like sex. Come on. And I bet even from time to time he wants it though it may be when the moon is off the waxing phase and into its blue phase.

Oh, and need sex. Hm, I don't like having something causing me to be powerless to it. Wonder how all them saints n monks n such do it? Ah, yes, good old MB. Got me through many a dry spell. It's all perspective.

More gusto, eh? Well that's good, isn't it? Take a page from GEL's book and don't sit idly by if/when H's old patterns start to come back.

"There is an email from Mr Alpha Male himself, OM I dated while separated.
Haven't talked to him in..what...well over a year."

Ah, the alpha traits again. And what I've discovered is more important than alpha-beta. The alpha boy-man vs. the alpha mature hero.

OM is the former. Worse than even the weak beta.

"Just wanted to tell me the reserves called him up.
\:\(
He's going to Iraq for a year.
\:\(
I can't believe he even still thinks of me. It's bringing up all sorts of weird emotions that I don't know what to do with right now so I'm journaling
here instead of writing back something I shouldn't."

Just wanted to tell you after a year of no contact, eh? Sorry, LFL, think others have said it already. If I were your H, I'd like to respond to him with:

"Aaaaaannnnd...???"

NOPkins said:

"Hi, LFL.

I think that you already know that you should just delete the email and continue on with your day. His life outcome, regardless of what that is, is not
your responsibility. If you make it yours, then you do so at the expense of your family."

Back to LFL:

"With that said, I ended up sending a very short "Be Well" email back to him. I should have said more it turns out because he emailed back this morning
"So...how are you? did you get D?"
"I understand and don't want to make things difficult for you. I know that they are hard enough. Just know that I'm here if you ever need to talk. I hope that you are able to get clarity in your life soon. You're a sweetheart - and a total hottie
;\)
- and deserve nothing but happiness. I know that it sucks now, but I'm positive you'll find it all worthwhile in the end when you do find your happiness."

Wow. Real alpha man. Boy-man or mature hero? No contact in a year but he is "always there" for you? What? Must be in one hell of a dry spell if he's not there for another F. Or maybe he is, sorta, but wants to touch base with the "hottie" he shared some months of good sex with.

Says he doesn't want to make things difficult for you then turns around and offers his shoulder, calls you a sweetheart and a total hottie who deserves nothing but happiness. (eye roll) That's the very definition of causing difficulty. Sorry, a mature hero alpha would not be sniffing around an M F with open-ended comments like these behind the back of the M F's H.. especially if the H has been kep in the dark by both.

I believe NOPkins said he is "no Prince Charming." I would go further... which is what I did.

"I know it GEL. But is it just that it is forbidden? No way. When I was legally separated, I dated this very man and it felt dammm good. He made me feel sexy, attractive, desirable, smart,...wanted. Was it drama then? I don't even know what my point is. I guess I'm just saying it is easy for people on here
to tell me how "fake" or "wrong" or "dramatic" it is but that was my REAL life -darnit! - for many months."

I think blackfoot explained the first part well. Stop placing your value and sexual desireability in the hands of OP. GEL's come a long way in that.

The last part. Months with OM? Months? And yet years with H. Hmm.

" It wasn't a complete fantasy world. And now
the REALITY is I am struggling, my M is constantly in a state of flux, my H is emotionally withdrawn, a man who gave me a huge part of myself that was missing could be killed any day now. THAT is reality. Drama implies acting/pretending. I'm not acting. I'm feeling all of this every moment of every day.
And it hurts. And it causes confusion. And it never seems to end."

Your M isn't in flux. You are, sweetheart. I know you know that. Which causes H to withdraw even more possibly. Again, I think BF pointed out that you cannot seriously think OM had all this control over giving you a huge part of yourself that was missing. Especially from only mere months swimming around in that so-called infatuation period.

"I'm not being unrealistic here. I know the OM lacked many qualitites that I also find very important (beyond the hot sex) in a R. He just embodies the one very quality that I want being the HD woman that I am. So that just sucks."

Yes, the wheel of life. Sacrificing everything to find that one single quality. I definitely recommend to myself and others not to put their entire stack of chips on one number. That sucks too. Dang, did that once in AC. And that was a red-black 50-50 shot. Crap! Double crap!!

"What I mean is that I wait and see if he is going to call me on any of my behaviors. Such as wearing a sexy outfit for girls night out. Any comment? Nope.
Or how about sending emails to men I shouldn't be sending them to? Does he care to check? Nope. And this is even after I was caught. I said, don't you want my password for the email? Nope. We shouldn't have to act like that he says. Ok."

Damned. H's response is pretty damned alpha to me. Pretty much saying to put your games away, they're not helping in the proactive steps department.

Shiver. This just reminds me how Fs test us and expect us to read their minds/mental machinations. Right, blackfoot, guys pay attention here.

It's why we all go,when we miserably fail these unseen tests: What? What's wrong? You're unhappy?? When did this start? You want an S? D? We need to talk? Uh oh.

LFL to Stigmata:

"Again, stop making him out to be a villian. That is not the case. He is more of a real MAN than most."

Hm, respectfully disagree. Maybe some, not most. A real man respects another's M and does not wait for an F to ditch her H. He goes on with his life and dates single Fs. And if the M F should one day look him up after her D? Then, fine, he can consider his options if he's not in an R. But he would leave well enough alone once he made that ultimate decision to let you work out your reconciliation way way way back in 2004. ie...

No Initiating Contact.

to Hwyre I think:

"But you don't know the whole back story. I've tried to suppress my Self for years and ended up miserable with a H who found me boring, unattractive, and no longer worthy or being M to. So I just have an issue with "giving 110%". What does that even mean when the two people in the M can't be their true Selves. To be the person that makes me happy just seems impossible in this M. I have tried to not feel the way I feel. It just doesn't work."

Urg. I empathize with you, LFL. Your resentment is sabotaging your progress. Just as Choc's resentment kept him on the sidelines. You sure you're over H's leaving you?

I think the biggest thing I've learned from my entire time on this forum is to never let resentment go unaddressed. Drag that sucker out into the light. Remind yourself that OP aren't perfect and neither am I.

And god knows that goes for Rs. That we need to hone the skill to catch it when it crops up and deal with it. Share it with those we love. And give them a chance to drag out their own.

God I only wished I had known this years ago. Every day that ticks by in my life I now fight that crushing weight of regret that I cannot go back and re-do. I only post to try and help others see before it's too late. I don't know if they help but maybe someone in the same boat will find a crumb.

I think calling OM a weasel was a way I could dial up the "harsh meter" to see where your mind was, LFL. I wanted to see just why you slid so far back down. And your fervent defense was just what I hoped wouldn't happen. Maybe others would call what I did dirty pool. Not my intent.

I think BF might understand this from his own experience too. You see, when x started associating with OM she always kind of joked about his not being attractive or that he was like a screwed up big brother. It was all very light convos we had about him.

Then one day, after she kept going to help him find an apt. blah blah blah I said something in jest about him and she snapped back in strong defense.

Something probably twinged in my gut, so I then offered to go with her to Om's city and help him move furniture etc. She responded with, No, that's okay, it's no big deal. So I started to press more. Why not? And I'll never forget it:

"He doesn't LIKE you."

It was at that point my appetite dropped off and I would end up losing 35 lbs in the next few weeks of hell... while I tried in vain to win back x's loss of attraction to me and thwart gaining attractions to OM.

I often wonder if x ever defended me like that to OP who may have made disparaging remarks about me. I know now that this is a key signal that an F has a connection to an M that is more than on a superficial or friendly level.

All to say that's why I think alpha boy-man's sweetheart and total hottie email should be printed out and given to H. It's up to H to figure out how to handle it from there

You're stil hung up on him, LFL. Until you realize that you are a hottie in your own right, are sexy, desireable, and do not require such fun roughhousing sexual validation from any other man, including alpha boy-man OM and H. I think you could be an awesome teacher as to exactly what you want. H just needs to stop feeling bad about what he did (since you still have leaking resentment) and feel good enough about himself to let go sexually piece by piece.

Blackfoot said he was harsh on you in the past for flip flopping and maybe my being harsh now is what I've done now as I see you flip-flopping again in a very short time frame with very big swings.

In all other areas of your M, things look pretty great from my outside view. Great companionship, kids, smart, attractive W, an H who has the big alpha balls to come back and admit he was wrong and want to work on things. Et cetera.

Yes, I'm hopelessly envious.

And hopelessly behind on my work.

I hope you can find that center, LFL, where your swings and shifts become a lot less pronounced. It's not only hard on you but your H and family as a whole. Gotta somehow try and stop focusing and living in fear of what's missing. You had an amazing sexual encounter with H on his birthday. Don't discount that because it doesn't happen every day. Kay?

Big Hug.

-Stigmata-

[LustForLife]

Holy Cow Stig. wow. thanks.

And now you've gone and done it. Made me cry.
But that's good. Needed it.


I'm so appreciative of the time and efort you put into that post. Means a lot to me.

Somewhat" evens the playing field? Does he mean he feels he is still in the one-down position for his leaving you? Do you realize if so this is a big reason why he might be hesitant to order you around, shake his head disapprovingly at your sexy outfits with the girls night out, and tell you to fork over your passwords? (I'm being a bit facetious here, yes. Odds are these tests are in your head only and he's completely in the dark to them)

Yes, I think he feels he is still "one-down". And I agree with you that he is probably completely in the dark to my "tests." But I really believe a part of him likes me "this way." He doesn't want me to be the way I was pre-bomb and is encouraging me to be the independent, more outgoing woman that I am today. He encourages me to go out with my friends, really. He thinks it's good for me to get out of frumpy mom mode (which I was in big time) and he hated that. So....

I highly doubt he doesn't like sex. Come on. And I bet even from time to time he wants it though it may be when the moon is off the waxing phase and into its blue phase.

He does like sex. He likes sex with me. He also could be happy as a clam on the 3 or 4 times a year plan. And sometimes even then, I don't sense real desire to do it, just a belief of "boy, we haven't done it in a while, better gat that chore taken care of." I'm sure it's not that extreme but it feels like it to me sometimes.

I think blackfoot explained the first part well. Stop placing your value and sexual desireability in the hands of OP. GEL's come a long way in that.

I really don't think I do that. I feel very good about myself sexually despite the M. Sure, it helps to be validated by om, but that is not something I need to rely on. There is a huge difference between just wanting the validation and wanting to have a fulfilling sexual life. The latter is what I am sorely missing in my M. As a HD woman, it's not about having men "want" me (although that's good too), it's about actually having some sexual NEEDS met. And yes, I am coming to the conclusion they are NEEDS, otherwise, why would I put so much emphasis on this issue. Why would I put my M in jeopardy. It's not just to get a cheap thrill. This is an ongoing life-long issue for me.

Your M isn't in flux. You are, sweetheart. I know you know that. Which causes H to withdraw even more possibly. Again, I think BF pointed out that you cannot seriously think OM had all this control over giving you a huge part of yourself that was missing. Especially from only mere months swimming around in that so-called infatuation period.

I wasn't giving om control over me (except sexually). My self-esteem just happened to get a nice boost from that R. You don't understand the full picture here. As a Woman who is not 21 anymore, has had two kids, and 2 c-sections, and has been pretty much sexually rejected and literally abandoned by her H at one point, yeah, it makes you question, "would anyone find me desirable again?" And someone did, beyond what I could have even imagined at the time. I know that is hard for you to understand, but it was a key point in my life. One I can't forget.

A real man respects another's M and does not wait for an F to ditch her H. He goes on with his life and dates single Fs. And if the M F should one day look him up after her D? Then, fine, he can consider his options if he's not in an R. But he would leave well enough alone once he made that ultimate decision to let you work out your reconciliation way way way back in 2004. ie...

No Initiating Contact.

I'm not initiating contact. My neighbor/friend is "on the case" and she is helping to keep me on the straight and narrow. I think a quote from her was "I'm locking you in your house til June." But I'm really not worried about going to see om at all. I don't want that. It's not going to happen.
And yes, we are all moving on with our lives. We have to.

You sure you're over H's leaving you?

Not really I guess. Don't think I'll ever be "over" it. I just need to deal with it.

Every day that ticks by in my life I now fight that crushing weight of regret that I cannot go back and re-do. I only post to try and help others see before it's too late. I don't know if they help but maybe someone in the same boat will find a crumb.

I know.
I think you should post more about your own situation. Start your own thread. You have a lot to contribute and I want to know what is going on with you.

I often wonder if x ever defended me like that to OP who may have made disparaging remarks about me. I know now that this is a key signal that an F has a connection to an M that is more than on a superficial or friendly level.

All to say that's why I think alpha boy-man's sweetheart and total hottie email should be printed out and given to H. It's up to H to figure out how to handle it from there

Sorry for your pain Stig. And I know I'm not being fair to H through all of this mess. I'm still considering what to do about the emails.

In all other areas of your M, things look pretty great from my outside view. Great companionship, kids, smart, attractive W, an H who has the big alpha balls to come back and admit he was wrong and want to work on things. Et cetera.

Yes, I'm hopelessly envious.

That's where the dam burst and I started to
meany
You are a very sweet man, although very long-winded.
I am confident you will not be envious for too much longer. You will find the person for you. You have the drive to do it. It's so obvious.

I hope you can find that center, LFL, where your swings and shifts become a lot less pronounced.

Me too.
Thanks
LFL

[MJontheMend]

That being said; My greatest "emotional need" is sex - connected sex. It is basically my only need from my wife, I can get by without much else. That makes me a bit odd, but it does fit with my sex drive being what it is.

I read this the other day and it bugged me enough that I feel compelled to be the second person to disagree with NOP today (although I do disagree with the not knowing Joseph was clearly beautiful issue too - lol).


NOP,

The problem with saying that "connected sex" is basically the "only" thing you need from your spouse is that you are neglecting the vast realm of prerequisites that make your spouse a person with whom you want to have "connected sex". So while it may be true that you (and I) value sexual connection over things like quality time or acts of service or gifts, it is not the case that we value sexual connection over whatever unique constellation of attributes makes a person sexually attractive to us. So I would say that you "need" MrsNOP's intelligence, beauty and strength of will MORE than you need sexual connection with her. From my current perspective, it is clear to me that a good part of the reason that I have never been LD in a relationship is that I refuse to take step one towards forming a relationship with any man who does not meet these prerequisites.

[NOPkins]

Hi, Mojo.

You would have to ask MrsNOP what her honest perception is.

With my youth being what it was, my emotional makeup is honestly, pretty far outside the norm.

I technically understand relationships now since I have spent considerable time studying the underlying dynamics. I started that in earnest back in 1999.

I learned to be a good father because I had a good set of rules that I developed after I had decided to change my life, not necessarily because of my upbringing.

I stopped playing and cheating by decision when I asked MrsNOP to marry me. Up until then, I had few redeeming qualities. I was dynamic and charming and had a ton of charisma, but at my core, there was a lack of substance.

So what I am trying to say by grazing over some loosely defined facts is that were I to fill out an "emotional needs questionnaire", I could honestly answer "not applicable" to most of them. It isn't that I don't have emotional needs or value my wife, or even understand them, I do, I am just not as affected by most of them.

MrsNOP and I both have some serious FOO issues, issues which we both decided early on would not affect us as a couple or as parents. For the most part, we have managed to accomplish that.

Quite frankly, If I told you of my childhood, your jaw would drop in disbelief. I have been encouraged by those who know me to write a book about it. I may do that when I am older.

That probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but without writing a book, it's about the best answer I can give you.

-NOPkins-

[MJontheMend]

I technically understand relationships now since I have spent considerable time studying the underlying dynamics. I started that in earnest back in 1999.

I think maybe I read 2 or 3 non-fiction books on relationships before I joined this BB. I almost certainly read over 1000 novels and it's a rare novel that doesn't concern itself with relationships. Perhaps the novel of your childhood would read like "Bastard out of Carolina" or worse, but the novel concerning itself with the period of your life leading up to the moment when you decided to stop playing and cheating and ask the girl that became MrsNOP to marry you would read like every romance ever written. Therefore, I'm pretty certain that you weren't thinking "This is the woman who will best meet my need for very frequent connected sex over the course of my lifetime so I will ask her to marry me." Right? But you did have some reasons why you wanted to marry her and those reasons IMO constitute the "needs" you have/had in a relationship that are as important to you as frequent connected sex. You just don't "see" them anymore because they never altered over the years in the way that MrsNOP's sexual response to you did.

[NOPkins]

Hi, Mojo.

Quote:"You just don't "see" them anymore because they never altered over the years in the way that MrsNOP's sexual response to you did."

Maybe so.

I don't want to introduce anything much more strange than I already have, but here we go.

I married MrsNOP because I loved her, but I was never infatuated with her, nor she with me. We both burned all that potential out living with each other before we were married. Much like you and your husband decided to get married due to pregnancy, we decided to get married because I thought it was the right thing to do, and MrsNOP basically went along with it.

She had to have loved me or saw some potential in me because all I did while we lived together was fool around. I gave her about 2% of the attention she deserved (and needed). One day she decided to leave me and go home, and she did. I had an "ah ha" moment and realized that I actually cared for someone. An altogether new emotion for me. Like I said, I was a tad emotionally underdeveloped.

So I did what anyone of my maturity and experience level would do, I immediately called up an old f-buddy and went to see her. I spent the night not actually touching her. Instead I spent the night thinking about MrsNOP and slowly but surely realized I had royally screwed the pooch and had really worked myself into a corner. I mean here I was, the worlds greatest player (estimated by my then hugely inflated ego), in love. It really did surprise me to the point that I was dumfounded.

After a couple of days, I realized that I had really had enough of the life I was living, so I cleaned myself up, drove to her hometown, and persuaded her to come back to me.

Soon after that we were married, and we both pledged not to repeat our parents mistakes and our previous ones. For the most part, we succeeded.

If you had asked me what a "need" was before I married MrsNOP, I would have told you "sex and a million dollars". I don't think I changed my mind on that for a long time

Like I said, I did the right things to be a good parent, I even did some things with MrsNOP, but for the rest of our marriage (up until the advent of my marital education), I did what I wanted to do. I pursued my career, learned to fly, fished, traveled, etc.... As far as I was concerned, other than sex. I met my own needs.

In all honesty, as far as I know (and likely due to my youth), I never LET anyone meet my needs outside of sex until MrsNOP and I reconciled.

Recently, MrsNOP and I were out on a date (something we have started doing in the last year), and I looked over at her while stopped at a traffic light and burst into laughter. It just seemed to be so absurd to me that this woman sitting next to me was married to a bachelor. The humor of it is that I have now become such an accomplished husband, but I am still so new at it that the paint is still shiny.

Like I said. I understand it technically, and I can still read people and situations well (left overs from my past). That is my only claim to fame except that now, most of it makes sense to me.

All the best,
-NOPkins-