Heather: I really am sorry that you are at such a painful spot right now. Been there, done that. What I'm trying and what you may try too is to start just thinking positive instead of letting all the negative seep in all the time. PMA huh? It's not easy w/ all the emotions swirling, but it's worth a shot.
I understand about the kids. I'm seeing first-hand how kids react when Daddy leaves. My H is now deployed for a year and we have 3 little boys -- 7, 3 & 1, and it's heartbreaking the emotions they go through. I am sure it would be very similar if Daddy were to leave by D, maybe worse.
You definitely need to address the porn issue, but maybe right now you just need to go back to the old basic DB'ing. That's what ended up bringing my H around. I just loved him, supported him, acted "as if" nothing was wrong and just showed him how very good he had it. He was bound & determined to walk. The only thing keeping him in the house was his impending deployment and wanting to spend the last bit of time w/ the boys, but he did end up coming around and things are very good w/ us now. Or at least I don't think D is an issue anymore anyway.
Maybe he's had time to think about things w/ you being gone. Go home and just act like everything is wonderful and see how he reacts. I agree w/ NOP on the D convo if it comes up. Let him know that that is NOT what you want and remember that anytime your brain thinks your mouth should bring it up again
When do you go home?
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Thanks. That's the good thing about this site, we all know what it feels like to be 'there'. Good, but not good. YNWIM.
You definitely need to address the porn issue, but maybe right now you just need to go back to the old basic DB'ing.
I see your point, but I don't see any way to skirt this stuff. We are in the middle of reconciliation and the hard stuff has got to happen if we are to stay together. Where I could have used some DBing was in my reaction, so that I wouldn't have ripped the cord out of the wall and told him that we were over. But I can't go back now. And I can't pretend that it didn't happen either, ya know? I can't keep giving him the impression that he can step over my boundaries and I will keep staying.
I'm really glad to hear things are going better in your situation, I've read parts of your thread before. It sounds like you did an absolutely wonderful job of stepping up to the plate and taking responsibiity for your weaknesses in the M. IMO, it's not all about WHAT we do to fix the problems, although that's pretty important too, but it's also about the willingness to acknowledge to our partners where we've gone wrong too. My H hasn't really ever been able to do that about anything, at least not with any discernible amount of regret or realization that some of our problems were caused by him, not just me.
I go home Sunday. I'll probably have to take a cab home from the airport I haven't figured out what I am going to say or do, but my sense is that any words will be lost on him because it appears to me from the way he is on the telephone that he has gone back to the old H where nothing gets in.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I think that you are in a tough situation, dealing with a person with an addictive personality.
I think that step one is realizing that a part of the process may have to include some ultimatums. I am thinking that "taking back the bed" is one of them.
If you can do that one thing, and still survive the onslaught that is sure to occur, then maybe you can move forward.
The only solid advice I can give you considering your husband's actions are for you to be proactive, not reactive. Stake out the things you want, and don't react to the tantrums.
That is hard to do, even for most males. In reality, though, parents do it with their children all the time.
Please let me know what you think.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Nops, I get through life quite a bit on intuition, or something similar to it anyway. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm not always a good communicator, even at work. I'll think something, sometimes even know something, but can't explain why. My brain tends to get muddled at the part where someone asks me to explain myself. My point is that I feel like your words below are more along the lines of what I need to do at this point. My H has had control of this R for a long time and I think the reason I keep coming back to leaving is because it's the only thing I have any control over. If I stay in the house, my life at home will be dictated by how my H chooses to 'let me' be. I think my desire to run will only go away if I can reclaim some of my power inside my home. Please help me do that.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Heather...."If I stay in the house, my life at home will be dictated by how my H chooses to 'let me' be." Ummm sweetie, that's bull pucky!
It is only this way if YOU choose to allow it. He can bitch, moan, and complain about it if you don't go along with how he wants to "let you be", but the only one who will allow him to control your behavior in that manner is YOU. If you stop allowing it, the choices in the marriage (as to leaving or staying) become his to make too.
BE YOU, BE THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE, BE THE WOMAN YOU ARE and be genuine to yourself. It's up to him to deal with that person or not. If he doesn't like it, then he has options open to him.
Personally, I'm with NOP's I think you need to tackle the bedroom issue. Move yourself back in there...don't ask, just do it. If he makes an issue of it tell him that this is part of "recommitting" to this marriage. The space between you must be closed up.
I would be honored, and others here are good with boundaries as well.
Why don't you handle the small situations on your own so that you get used to standing your ground, and present the major ones here for input.
How does that sound as a starting place?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Sorry if I jumped in too soon to comment to Nops about your issues with standing your ground with your H. Please let Nops know if I am off-base in my concerns.
Also I liked GEL's suggestion of telling your H that moving back into your bed is part of your "recommitment" to the marriage.
Good Luck!!!!
Nops said: Why don't you handle the small situations on your own so that you get used to standing your ground, and present the major ones here for input.
Nops,
Heather might need help on the small situations just as much as the large ones. It appears that she convinces herself to let the small issues go because they are not that important to her. So it appears she is not even used to handling those minor situations. If so, then help with the minor issues might be helpful also.
Here is what was written earlier this month:
Fearless: why is it impossible for you to stand your ground on having porcelain handles? I think the fact that he gets his way on so many things starting with these little things makes it easy for him to get his way on everything else. (Until you explode but that is not a healthy way to get power)
Heather: It wasn't impossible for me to stand my ground, but I guess I don't care enough about porcelain handles to take a stand on the issue. I'm like 'who cares'?! I thought they would look nice, but I'm not going to throw a fit about it or become entrenched in a power struggle over the handles to the bathroom faucets. I guess that's why I was saying his reaction was ridiculous...it's just so silly to have such an intense reaction. Even if I wasn't fond of porcelain handles, if he was fond enough of them to prefer them over the chrome handles, that would be good enough for me. But hey, that's me. And that's me on so many issues, it's just not worth a huge fight. And make no mistake, everything we've ever disagreed on, if I try to push my opinion, it becomes a huge fight.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I think a lot of it is not only dealing w/ issues, but helping Heather (and some of the rest of us) to learn HOW to (as GEL put it):
BE YOU, BE THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE, BE THE WOMAN YOU ARE and be genuine to yourself.
I'm struggling w/ this too. Not to speak for Heather, and not to interupt her thread, but hopefully this is where she is too, I struggle daily because our H and our children is our life. Yes, we may work full-time, but how do you GAL w/ children, work, etc.? How do we learn to "let go" and if they decide to leave, we're ok?
I've told myself in my sitch, and in Heather's it's the porn issue, if he cheats again he's gone. Would I really be able to do that? I say to myself if he is still talking to OW and doesn't see how good he really has it WITH ME, that's his loss and I don't want him anyway. But do I really believe that?
I think Heather wants to be able to get to this point. Where she is strong enough in herself to stand up to him and if he chooses to walk she'll be ok, but how do we get to that point????
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
It's not an easy place to get to, won't pretend it is....but for me, a great deal of it has to do with REALLY valuing yourself. I'm a mom too (have a wonderful 4yr old son) who works full-time outside of the home, and you're right...it is tough to GAL sometimes with all of the demands, but you can find small ways to do it. For me, I had to find some things that I could include my son in....like finding a gym that had daycare/activities available for him. It at least gave me some time to do something for ME. I'm also going to join a Dance club once a week at my gym...just for me. It's only two hours once a week, but it's two-hours once a week that I do something for ME, something that I enjoy, and something that is good for me too. FWIW, I can take my son with me as well...since this activity is at my gym and the daycare will be available. That leaves me free to participate regardless of my H's schedule.
As for the part of being genuine to yourself and letting them deal with whether or not they like it or not....you have to get to the point where it's "what have I got to lose?" Either you stay in your marriage as it is and keep the woman you truly are stuffed inside, dying to get out....and wait and see if things work out or not (still keeping her stuffed inside)....OR, you let her out and show your H who you truly are, you stop hiding away parts of yourself that he may not like, or that you are afraid he may not like....and let HIM deal with how he feels about it. That includes not rescuing him from his own feelings.
It's not an easy thing to do, but I hafta tell ya...it's one of the absolute best things I've done in my marriage. My H was uncomfortable at first with the free uncensored GEL, but now...I don't have to suppress her, I let her out there and it feels GREAT!
I've told myself in my sitch, and in Heather's it's the porn issue, if he cheats again he's gone. Would I really be able to do that? I say to myself if he is still talking to OW and doesn't see how good he really has it WITH ME, that's his loss and I don't want him anyway. But do I really believe that?
See, this is a big part of the problem I think. People will often push as far as the other person "lets" them. I'm very guilty of this myself. I'm sure you and Heather's Hs are very aware of your lack of boundaries. They got away with it once so why not twice, or forever? And when you said "do I really feel that way?" It is obvious the answer is no. You will allow him to do it again. If you are already questioning it, then that is YOUR burden to figure out. Like GEL said, no one makes you do anything. You let them get away with it. My H is probably walking on some eggshells with me now because he knows I am 110% certain that if he leaves again, I will be 110% convinced the M is finally dead. I told myself (and truly believed it, which is key) that his unwillingness to at least stay in the house when things are crappy, or when he's depressed, or just feeling like running away, then that's it. I'm done. I don't know how you convey that to them exactly but it won't be conveyed at all if you don't believe it yourself. That's the first step. Heather, you don't seem anywhere near ready to make that choice. I hurt for you because I cannot imagine living like that. But again, repeating GEL's words, you allow it to happen sweetie. LFL
I haven't figured out what I am going to say or do, but my sense is that any words will be lost on him because it appears to me from the way he is on the telephone that he has gone back to the old H where nothing gets in.