Hi all, this is my first post so please bear with me if I'm not following the abbreviations, lingo, etc.
My husband moved out in February and I was six months pregnant at the time (am now 9 months pregnant). We had been having problems, fighting a lot and he had been distancing himself from the relationship for the last nine months (probably more, if I really think about it). I think there may be an OW, definitely an EA, maybe more. I tried to confront him about connections he had established with multiple OW via the internet and phone late last year but that led to more fighting and distancing himself from our relationship. We finally mutually decided that he should move out in February.
We are both in couples and individual counseling and he says that he wants to work on things but remains completely distant, defensive and angry at times. He has no idea why he feels this way but says that he is no longer good for me and our son (3 yrs old) and that he doesn't deserve us. He also says that he doesn't feel anything anymore (no sadness, regret, happiness, etc) and doesn't know who he is. Also says he doesn't want to hurt me any longer and that I don't know him/understand him. He is only 34, I can't imagine it would be a MLC.
Anyway, I have been lurking on this website since Feburary and am just now getting up the courage to write something. I had a terrible time with our situation at first but things have gotten easier as the months have progressed. Still, I am constantly hopeful we will work things out and he is still very involved in our lives. He visits his son numerous times a week and we still do many things together as a family. The problem is that, the majority of the time we spend together, he spends text messaging the EA.
I am pregnant with our second son and due any day now. I think he will be temporarily moving home to help with the baby. I just need some advice on how to handle having him back home or on our situation in general. Reading others posts over the last few months has really been a point of sanity for me, I'm now hoping to receive some advice of my own...
Wow, I am really sorry to hear about your situation.
I wonder what your husband is missing? Has he been successful at work? I ask because I had some of those same feelings you mentioned, when I lost my job, but never enough to want to leave my wife, but it affected her and she left.
Men are idiots. We don't know how to share feelings, we don't know how to talk about disappointment or sadness, or whatever. We think we have to be tough and macho all the time and it wears on us! We crack or we do stupid stuff or we think the grass will be greener if we leave our current life and start a new one.
Just be kind, don't argue, show him something he's not used to - civil conversation and genuine caring. Don't even talk about the relationship. If he brings it up, talk nicely. Set the environment so he feels safe, and you feel safe and see what a difference it makes.
I truly hope things work out for you and your family.
We can talk ourselves into defeat or we can talk ourselves into victory - we are creatures of our thinking.
3/31/07 - Hit with a brick, leaving the dent there...
JRyan, thank you so much for your kind words. Things have actually been extremely difficult for him at work. I work full-time and we also jointly own a landscaping business, which he runs and I handle the accounting. We bought the business 3 years ago and it has really been a cancer between us as we both have very different views on how to run a business. I do believe this is a huge part of the problem but he hates discussing the business and doesn't want to get rid of it. It is really his life's dream so I don't want us to lose it, I just can't figure out how to work together successfully within the business.
He came over tonight and we had a fabulous night with our son. However, we then had to discuss business matters, which put him in a bad mood and set the tone for the rest of the evening. Now I feel bad and, of course, want to call him to discuss but I know that won't help. I think I'm through the desparate calling stage and now just think it's best to let things play out how they will.
Anyway, I'm rambling but I do appreciate your thoughts, they were extremely perceptive! Thx.
Do you have the books? What things did he say he couldn't "live with" in the marriage? What things can you change about interactions about the business, etc?
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
Well, I feel like this is going to sound odd but he didn't really say there was anything specific that he couldn't live with in the marriage. Honestly, it felt like I just started living with a different person. He became less and less recognizable and more unhappy as the months passed. I asked him what I could do, what anyone could do, and he just kept saying that it was him (not me) and that he didn't know what was wrong or how to fix it. He still says this in counseling.
He says that he would like for things to work out, but I'm not sure I believe him. He doesn't really seem to be trying because I honestly believe he just feels lost and doesn't seem to have a sense of who he is anymore. I want to help him but don't want to crowd, pressure, etc. so I have been trying to give as much space as possible, while staying supportive and taking care of me throughout the pregnancy.
I feel like I'm making no sense and talking in circles but that is really how the situation feels to me, more than a bit confusing and overwhelming.
I am trying to work on our interactions regarding the business. I know that I can be a bit unbearable when it comes to the finances (personal and business finances alike) but I really just have our best interest in mind. He is a bit financially unreliable so neither of us feel comfortable turning the financials over to him. Honestly, I think that if he had the self esteem to be more aggressive with new business, we could easily grow and many of these issues would no longer exist. He is just terrified of rejection, which doesn't help things when you are responsible for bringing in new business and maintaining existing relationships. Perhaps he could take a business class to boost self-esteem? I have suggested this to him but he always says that we don't have the money then becomes depressed about it. Seems like a never-ending pattern...
Again, I just want to thank everyone for any thoughts, it really helps to finally put this out there and have a support system. Even though it's been 3.5 months, we haven't told many friends/family so don't have much support there.
I know you're trying to help him by suggesting he take classes but maybe look at the things he already DOES well and focus on those - KWIM? If he's strong in selling or whatever, lift him up about that (and lift him up in prayer about all of it.)
(KWIM - know what I mean )
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
You know, you are absolutely right. That is defintely one of my downfalls, I need to spend more time recognizing and praising his strengths. Perhaps that should be my goal for right now? At least it will help take my mind off of the pregnancy until this baby comes.
C says that he is depressed and doesn't feel like he deserves to be with me, our family or to be happy. Says that he is WAY too hard on himself and feels like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. Says that EA is a temporary thing to build up the ego and make him feel macho again. She also thinks that he feels like a failure, like he can't provide for our family and is looking for reassurance from other sources.
I tried going dark and it drove him absolutely nuts. As you can see from my postings, I'm a pretty long-winded, open person as he's accustomed to that (though I think it drives him nuts sometimes). Me going dark would only last a day or two cause he'd start asking so many questions about everything. It seemed almost trite to try to avoid answering so I gave in... Makes me feel like he still cares though.
Hi there, I read your post yesterday but I just now have a change to reply
Originally Posted By: new_mommy2
We are both in couples and individual counseling and he says that he wants to work on things but remains completely distant, defensive and angry at times.
That is totally normal, I call it the anger/blame stage, when they just blame the other spouse for all and can't see straight, it lasted about 4mths for my H, you can't reason w/them until they come to terms with the fact that they also had their hand in the downfall of the M. At the beginning C didnt' help my H much, we changed of Cs 2x until we found this great C who made us feel we'd achieve some progress since the first visit w/him.
Originally Posted By: new_mommy2
He also says that he doesn't feel anything anymore (no sadness, regret, happiness, etc) and doesn't know who he is. Also says he doesn't want to hurt me any longer and that I don't know him/understand him. He is only 34, I can't imagine it would be a MLC.
That is exactly what my H told me many times when he was away and suffered from deep depression, told me how empty he felt, how he didnt' have anything to give, that I was better off without him. Plus the MLC he was just a mess. My H was 29 when all this happened, so yes, MLC can happen at this stage.
All I could do is just to be his friend, told him repeatedly how I married him for better and for worse, that in the years past he had pour so much love into our M and me that I was going to be there for him. He always felt underserving and kept asking him why I still wanted him "I wouldnt' want me back!" he'd say.
A really good book was "talking to depression" it really helps you to see their side and know what to say and what not to.
I'm sorry you have to go through this trial by fire while prego, but know that as horrible as this sitch is, it could make your M much stronger and better in the end. I suffered a great deal, but I am much better off now, I have learned a great deal about myself and about my M, I wouldnt' want to be back to the way things were.
I want you to read either (or both) of this books: "The proper care and feeding of husbands", and "For Women Only: What You Need to Know about the Inner Lives of Men" to help you learn to see your H's side of things.
Be supportive, be a listening ear. Be yourself, I know it sounds corny, but be that confident person he fell in love with,show him who he can be coming home to. I can imagen how the business can be the source of problems, I dont' have much advice and I'm sure it is a fine balancing act, just make sure you hear your H out and respect him when he brings ideas you dont' agree with.
Originally Posted By: new_mommy2
He says that he would like for things to work out, but I'm not sure I believe him. He doesn't really seem to be trying because I honestly believe he just feels lost and doesn't seem to have a sense of who he is anymore.
Hon, depression is a horrible beast, just the fact that he says he wants things to work is him TRYING, you have to believe him when he says he doesnt' feel anything, it is a sad sad thing, like my H, he is shattered inside. He sees his life as a huge lie and a deception, this knowledge tears him appart, MLC is when they look back and say "what the heck am I doing? what have I accomplished?"
Originally Posted By: new_mommy2
...if he had the self esteem to be more aggressive with new business, we could easily grow and many of these issues would no longer exist. He is just terrified of rejection, which doesn't help things when you are responsible for bringing in new business and maintaining existing relationships
If bringing new business isnt' his forte, then swap responsibilities, work out a new plan in which you are the one handling new business if you are the more agressive one. It all has to do w/him feeling disrespected. I wouldnt' recommend going dark, he is reaching out and going to C.
As for the EA read on: Beyond Betrayal article Emotionally Retarded Men in Love ======================
About the only people more dangerous than philandering men going through life with an open fly and romantic damsels going through life in perennial distress, are emotionally retarded men in love. When such men go through a difficult transition in life, they hunker down and ignore all emotions. Their brain chemistry gets depressed, but they don't know how to feel it as depression. Their loved ones try to kee from bothering them, try to keep things calm and serene - and isolate them further
An emotionally retarded man may go for a time without feeling pleasure, pain, or anything else, until a strange woman jerks him back into awareness of something intense enough for him to feel it - perhaps sexual fireworks, or the boyish heroics of rescuing hff, or perhaps just fascination with her constantly changing moods and never-ending emotional crises.
With her, he can pull out of his depression briefly, but he sinks back even deeper into it when he is not with her. He is getting addicted to her, but he doesn't know that. He only feels the absence of joy and love and life with his serenely cautious wife and kids, and the awareness of life with this new woman.
What he needs is not a crazier woman to sacrifice his life for, but treatment for his depression. However, since the best home remedies for depression are sex, exercise, joy, and triumph, the dangerous damsel may be providing one or more of them in a big enough dose to make him feel a lot better. He may feel pretty good until he gets the bill, and sees how much of his life and the lives of his loved ones this treatment is costing.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
cat, this feedback is just what I needed to hear (though I don't know if it is good news or bad news). It somewhat validates what we have been experiencing and just knowing that other people have gone through something similar and triumphed is freeing.
Thank you for your input and please know that i will take your suggestions and advice to heart. This is scary, but the idea of not being a family is far worse. I did read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands but will pick-up the other book today. My library of marital- self-help books grows daily.
Also, I wish you nothing but the best for your sitch. Do you find that you still have setbacks (relapses, so to speak) at this stage?
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