GEL - personally I think if we address the M/W issue the rest will fall into place.
All in all, we have a fabulous relationship other than that one problem. If we can get that resolved, I truly believe there won't be any other issues to see a MC about. We are so compatible its unbelieveable. I am sure that is the primary reason we have weathered this whole mess so well. We still remain the best of friends regardless of all the crap.
I am viewing him totally different these days, which in turn makes me feel a whole lot better about myself. I am truly seeing it had nothing to do with me, something he has been telling me for years but I never believed, now I do. How could it have anything to do with me when he views the world through different eyes. To some degree, it isn't his fault either, he didn't know anything else. But now that he does, it is like a whole new person has evolved and he wants to feel what other people feel, he wants to have that special relationship that he only read about in books, he doesn't know how to get there, but at least he wants to try
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I am viewing him totally different these days, which in turn makes me feel a whole lot better about myself. I am truly seeing it had nothing to do with me, something he has been telling me for years but I never believed, now I do. How could it have anything to do with me when he views the world through different eyes. To some degree, it isn't his fault either, he didn't know anything else. But now that he does, it is like a whole new person has evolved and he wants to feel what other people feel, he wants to have that special relationship that he only read about in books, he doesn't know how to get there, but at least he wants to try
GEL - and I am sure it has more to do with the complex they (we) are going through than the similarities in our lives.
I don't know if it is a protection mechanism for me or if it really is the case but I truly feel sorry for him (guess that's the nurturing side of me). He is struggling with not being able to understand what needs to be done. He is a VERY intelligent man and it frustrates him to no end.
He had nothing but wonderful things to say about me to the C yesterday and he really does want to "fix" this but doesn't even know where to begin. I think the thought of going to see someone else, since he is pretty comfortable with the C we have now, especially to talk about "sex" (God forbid!!) scares him a little too
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
the easiest ways to explain the M/W complex is this way
I don't have a problem with the definition of W/M. What I am encouraging you to think about is, "Is your H really in a full W/M mode?"
I certainly had many messages that girls didn’t like X, y or Z, but my mother lived with her boyfriend at the time. They eventually married but he had a long abandoned common-law wife that wasn't legally out of the picture.
My brother allowed me, my sister, and other people to live with his family. Some were girls that got pregnant. I saw the results of what some guys did to have sex and if she got PG, it was the girl’s problem, and not his concern. That is until it happened.
I was suggesting some things in your H life influenced his thinking and maybe there are other things that contribute to the W/M symptoms talked about here.
Maybe there are true W/M men, but I would say hang-ups play an important role in a marital relationship and in thinking sex is dirty, or some variation.
Look at the stereotype about women supposedly not liking sex or thinking it is dirty. Why does that happen? I tend to think there are male/female equivalents/versions of the W/M picture.
Lou - I don't doubt "hang-ups" play a HUGE role in a lot of marital relationships but we basically don't have ANY hang-ups - really, no bs'ing you!!
My H does not see sex as an enjoyable or good thing. He sees it as a physical urge that he has to release and nothing more. If he could control that urge, he would probably be quite content to never have sex ever again. It has nothing to do with society and the labels they have put on what good girls do and don't. It is his mind telling him it's wrong, period!
After we got married, the closer we got emotionally over time, the more and more he pulled away sexually.
There is no doubt in my mind my H has full-fledged M/W complex and as much as he does not believe in academic labelling, he was quite amazed as to how close it resembles him and he can't deny it himself. He said it is the first time in his life he has been able to have some sort of "answer" to how he has felt all these years.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
My H does not see sex as an enjoyable or good thing. He sees it as a physical urge that he has to release and nothing more.
That is a different POV than I am acquainted with. I don't know what to say.
I had the messages that sex was great but here are all the ways it can bite you in the b@lls. Pregnancy, being a pest, imposing on the female, and thought your H might have heard something similar.
I am not wildly HD, don't take many risks, heard too many girls don't like....., but I do have a sex drive that had too many brakes applied for various reasons. I like to call it driving with one foot on the gas and the other foot on the brakes. It waists a lot of energy.
Now BB/W is the one applying the brakes and I apply the gas.
It is god to hear your H is willing to talk about all of this and is having some insights or coming to some answers.
Yes, it is definitely a different way of having to look at things from what I have been taught and grown up with.
I grew up in that perverbial family where "good girls didn't do that" and what you should and shouldn't be doing, even after marriage. But I have at least come to a point in my life where I know that was wrong. I might still be a little shy and not as daring as some and my lack of numerous sex partners doesn't help but at least I am more than eager and willing to try things with my H - but he is not. The more he loves me, trusts me and respects me, the LESS he wants to do those "things". So it is a total reversal from what I consider the "norm"
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
"My H does not see sex as an enjoyable or good thing."
Lou, this is very similar to my H's perspective as well. My H does enjoy having sex, the act of it...it feels good to him physically, but he was taught it was a dirty/disrespectful thing to do to a woman that he loves...so his mind doesn't let him go there. I can only imagine that for a man who does not have this perspective that it would be a difficult thing to wrap your brain around.
That's absolutely right GEL - the act feels good to them but to do it to/with someone you love, they just don't want to go there.
Something in their brains didn't put the two (sex and love) together when they were younger and they think of them as two separate entities. No other way of explaining it
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I grew up in that preverbal family where "good girls didn't do that" and what you should and shouldn't be doing, even after marriage.
No double standard for the boys in our extended family. Same message for girls and boys!
The after marriage was more liberal but not talked about.
Still I got the message that oral sex was off limits except for a try it to say you did, and anal sex was way only for perverts.
My W/BB has been my only sex partner and if it hadn’t been for her, early on in the M, I would have believed some of those old "girls don't like" messages. She changed false myths into a good reality for me, at least for several years.
I am not daring either, but willing to explore and try different things. For BB the basics are not any fun or exciting now. They were at one time. It is strange how things become reversed.
The more he loves me, trusts me and respects me, the LESS he wants to do those "things.. That is sad. Hopefully the C sessions will show your H that he can do things you want and by doing so, he can love you more, and it can come as a gift to you, from him.
I know I want things from my W/BB but I also want to give her things she wants. Giving/taking or accepting/declining gifts if one sided can be depressing.
Maybe working from an angle of giving and taking things from the OP’s POV would help your H see that what he thinks is gross/whatever, is something you value. It’s similar to “one man’s trash is the other woman’s treasure.”
