Oh hon, you are preaching to the choir about bread and water sex in comparison to hot/animalistic sex. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that from my H...and yep, I've had that before too...it's what REALLY works well for me, but I'll probably never have that from my H.
Believe it or not, I have an XBF who connected with me sexually that way as well (horrible communicator though)...I didn't even know this guy felt like he loved me til I had made the decision to move on and feel in love with my late fiancee. Anyway...unfortunately, when I think about the kind of sex I'd like to have in my marriage...I can't help but remember him. So...yeah, I can relate.
LFL wrote:"But this om was the only one who ever "got" my desire for the...how shall I phrase it...assertive sex..to put it mildly"
Have you ever talked to hubby about this? Have you ever demonstrated it to him?
There is no inherent reason why he can't do this, and enjoy it. It's just a matter of experience and drive. If he has enough drive to stay erect and enjoy the act, and he can learn the basics, then he can do it.
You might be surprised what you can teach someone sexually with a little bit of effort.
How assertive do you like it? Spitting, pulling, restraint, choking? Is there a particular thing you don't think he can handle?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Oh Nop, don't you know me well enough by now? Of course I have talked to H about it, and showed him, and cajoled him, blah blah. He has FLAT OUT refused to do it. A fairly close quote from him on it was "I like sex with you but I am NOT (emphasis on that word specifically) going to do THAT." I'm not into anything kinky. But I like a man to take charge. Hold me down, tug on my hair from behind, not to the point of pain, just clear restraint. H calls it "rape." I looked at him like he was nuts of course and said if it is something I WANT, it is hardly rape. He still disagrees and refuses to even go there. I'm sure that is all weighing in the back of his mind and that is why the SL is still where it is. I'm sure it could be part of the Whore/Madonna concepts too but H doesn't seem to ever want the Whore part, with anyone. So, that's that.
LFL wrote:"I'm not into anything kinky. But I like a man to take charge. Hold me down, tug on my hair from behind, not to the point of pain, just clear restraint. H calls it "rape." I looked at him like he was nuts of course and said if it is something I WANT, it is hardly rape"
I thought when you said "aggressive" that you were talking about actual aggressive sex. What you describe is more along the lines of "assertive" sex play.
So, you really are having trouble with left over imagery from other man.
I know I have asked this, but is there any way you can get hubby to come and post here?
If not, I suggest you scour the internet for articles or books describing normal sex play between adults. If you found such information, would he read it?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
What I mean is that I wait and see if he is going to call me on any of my behaviors. Such as wearing a sexy outfit for girls night out. Any comment? Nope. Or how about sending emails to men I shouldn't be sending them to? Does he care to check? Nope. And this is even after I was caught. I said, don't you want my password for the email? Nope. We shouldn't have to act like that he says. Ok. Your get the idea.
So when you do these little tests, he doesn't do anything? Not even a little bit? He may not respond by trying explicitly to stop you; when my own wife does little tests of this nature, I tend to respond by ramping up the attention, affection, flirting, and generally trying to entice her back to the reservation.
Also, do you know for a fact that he considers your email conversations (with Chrome or anyone else) after the separation to be over the line?
Oh yeah, and your idea of a sexy outfit and his idea of a sexy outfit might be different.
I may be putting my words into his mouth, but I don't really like "controlling" my wife. I've read my history, I've seen how generations of women felt miserable and stagnant through being controlled (or perhaps simply through being controlled badly or heavy-handedly), and I've long considered that something not to do to a grown woman I care about. The reactions you seem to be looking for remind me a lot of the way men were in the bad old days. I'm learning that there's a wide gulf in between that mindset and the mindset of letting them do whatever without objection, but it's hard to find that balance and some guys might not even see that there is one.
Originally Posted By: LustForLife
Well, subconsciously maybe he does feel that way. Maybe that is why he encourages me to go out with my girlfriends to bars and clubs. But, when he has to verbalize it, he says he is not willing to put up with that nonsense. Mixed messages?
Allowing you to do what you've already set out to do is one thing... explicitly giving you the go-ahead to go further than that is quite another, especially if he's started to get the sense that you're not comfortable being allowed to do that. He may take a while to see that you're looking for him to actively prevent you from doing it, and that you're doing some things not because they make you happy but because you want to see him actively preventing you from doing it, while more quickly catching on that encouraging you to do it is a no-no.
Originally Posted By: LustForLife
Of course I have talked to H about it, and showed him, and cajoled him, blah blah. He has FLAT OUT refused to do it. A fairly close quote from him on it was "I like sex with you but I am NOT (emphasis on that word specifically) going to do THAT." I'm not into anything kinky. But I like a man to take charge. Hold me down, tug on my hair from behind, not to the point of pain, just clear restraint. H calls it "rape." I looked at him like he was nuts of course and said if it is something I WANT, it is hardly rape. He still disagrees and refuses to even go there. I'm sure that is all weighing in the back of his mind and that is why the SL is still where it is. I'm sure it could be part of the Whore/Madonna concepts too but H doesn't seem to ever want the Whore part, with anyone. So, that's that.
Hmmm... if he went through with it as a "role-playing" exercise, do you think you would respond or would it fall flat? And does he think it would fall flat? It's clear to me that he doesn't want to assert control over you in earnest in or out of the bedroom, and going through the motions may not even work or (in his mind) be worth trying. Again, he has trouble getting into any sort of sexual mindset, especially one where he has to either (a) convincingly roleplay or (b) actually feel and display an attitude that he has never been able to pull off in any context.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 05/15/0705:59 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Not to be nitpicky but I did write assertive sex. Guess I'm not sure if you are contrasting the words assertive/aggressive or the words sex/play.
My H will "play" sometimes during sex. We have done the roleplay once or twice...that's it. It was fun but still awkward and he hasn't wanted to do anything like that since. I guess this is what I meant by "if you're not into it, your just not into it". Cemar might just call that a desire discrepancy. I think he may be right. I desire sex a certain way. H desires sex in a totally different/opposite way. Not that I don't like to "make love" because I do. But there is a part of me that is no longer being fulfilled. It is a fairly big part of me I think that I have always stuffed away somewhere because I had to. Still do.
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So, you really are having trouble with left over imagery from other man.
Yes.
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I know I have asked this, but is there any way you can get hubby to come and post here?
I'm not up for that even if he would Nop. I can only handle so much right now. I really am not looking for answers on how to get H to work with me on this issue. We have tried and tried and tried. It will never be. I need to accept it or move on.
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If not, I suggest you scour the internet for articles or books describing normal sex play between adults. If you found such information, would he read it?
He'd read it as a joke, maybe try a thing or two if I pushed, but that would not last. We've done that before as well. Got tons of books at one point. He glanced at them. It's not that he thinks any of it is not "normal", he just doesn't want to step out of his comfort zone. He is just who he is and he can only change so much. That is basically what he tells me. He loves me and I should love him for him. LFL
Quote: ---------------------------- Not to be nitpicky but I did write assertive sex. ----------------------------
Sorry, I read that wrong.
Quote: ---------------------------- He is just who he is and he can only change so much. That is basically what he tells me. He loves me and I should love him for him. ----------------------------
That's very similar to what MrsNOP thought and decided about me a couple of decades ago. Same situation for me.
It didn't work out so well.
You have to decide what you will settle for, as long as you realize that you are settling for something less than desired, and are prepared to deal with the ongoing resentment. I personally don't think that is possible to any significant degree.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I can totally relate to what you and GEL are saying... I've had that total-fit kind of sex, too, and my bf just won't do it, not interested. To him it's gross and disgusting, and yes, I've talked til I'm blue in the face. We've been to THREE couple counselors, for Pete's sake.
NOP, what makes you think that any guy, if shown, will just do these simple things (like gentle hair-pulling)? The fact that this is what "we" like isn't enough to push the guy out of his comfort zone. How would you suggest persuading a guy to step up the assertiveness even to the normal level?
So when you do these little tests, he doesn't do anything?
Well, sometimes he'll do what you mentioned, flirt a little with me. Or say something like, "don't let any guys hit on you, ha ha."
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Also, do you know for a fact that he considers your email conversations (with Chrome or anyone else) after the separation to be over the line?
Yes, he was not happy. Told me to get rid of it. Never asked me one thing though about how long, how many, who, what did you talk about, nothing. That seemed weird to me. I'd want to know. But he wanted to sweep it under to rug. The only thing he said about it was "well, I guess that somewhat evens the playing field." - referring to his leaving. And we actually were better for a few months. But nothing really changed.
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I don't really like "controlling" my wife. I've read my history, I've seen how generations of women felt miserable and stagnant through being controlled (or perhaps simply through being controlled badly or heavy-handedly), and I've long considered that something not to do to a grown woman I care about. The reactions you seem to be looking for remind me a lot of the way men were in the bad old days. I'm learning that there's a wide gulf in between that mindset and the mindset of letting them do whatever without objection, but it's hard to find that balance and some guys might not even see that there is one.
My H doesn't believe in that whole Alpha male concept. He certainly doesn't want to be like one. They are "meatheads", "stupid", and like you said too controlling. He wants us to be "equals". Well, intellectually I can agree with a lot of that. Psychologically/biologically, I don't think it really works that way. I am a smart woman. Well educated. Why can't I feel as much desire for my H as I do when I think of that OM grabbing my arm as I walk past him in the family room, throwing me over the side of the couch, and having his way with me, without saying a dammm word. That's not what a modern educated woman should liek, right? Welcome to my world. My H sure as heck can't figure me out.
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if he went through with it as a "role-playing" exercise, do you think you would respond or would it fall flat? And does he think it would fall flat?
Flat as a pancake. I don't want him to do Anything he doesn't want to do. I'm over it. Thanks for the suggestions though. LFL
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------- NOP, what makes you think that any guy, if shown, will just do these simple things (like gentle hair-pulling)? The fact that this is what "we" like isn't enough to push the guy out of his comfort zone. How would you suggest persuading a guy to step up the assertiveness even to the normal level? ---------------------------------------------------------
It would depend on his excuse (we can call it lack of knowledge to be kind) for not doing it.
Guys do stupid stuff for the same reason women do, because it isn't important enough for them not to do it.
I guess that it would have to be made important enough for him to step up.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
