Excellent Choc! Way to go! I think you worded it just right.
It's clear to me how much you still love your wife, because that love was coming through the words in your email to her.
It took a lot of courage and strength to step up to the plate and you did it. Keep remembering that each time you feel terrified. You can do it. It may be the hardest work you've ever done, but you can do it.
Here's the rest of Mrs. Choc's response to my e-mail, and then my response to her. Read bottom to top. I'm sure we'll talk today.
I'd welcome everyone's interpretation. I am deeply in prayer about this, and have asked my sister for help in that regard too, so I do feel an invisible hand at work here.
And as you will see, I DID go ahead and lay it on the line about my feelings for her.
Damn the torpedos, right?
Choc.
P.S. "Cindy" by the way is Mrs. Choc's cousin, and her entire life -- childhood and adult -- my wife has always been comapred to "Cindy and Jeanne," her two cousins. They have fairytale lives, and she's always feel pressure from her mom and her aunt to conform to their ideal image, as wrong as she knows that is. Just sharing that for some perspective on her note. "Donna" is my sister-in-law, whom I had known since I was about 13. She passed away of cervical cancer this past Christmas. She and my brother were the very definition of "soul-mates", with a strong, deep, and abiding Christian love for each other. Everyone at her memorial service and her funeral talked about that -- that theirs was THE best relationship that any of them had known. Finally, our D20 and D18 are both moving out of the house at the end of the month, something that will just be devastating to my wife. The three of them are extremely close, and while we knew this day would come very soon for D20, having D18 join her (the two of them and a BF for 10+ years are getting an apartment together, about 30 minutes away) was a huge curveball.
Quote:
Susan,
I cannot tell you how much your honesty means to me, and you can expect nothing less from me. Like you, I am a person who is slow to act, but when I DO act, I'm pretty much blunt-force-trauma and I am ready to see things thru.
What is going to be hard is, I've pretty much tried to stuff all of my feelings for you for about 4-5 years now, and it makes me sad to think that I've pretty much accomplished that "goal". Because it hurt to much to feel that way, and so it was easier just to be "platonic" and just be a good guy and all, be a good friend, be a support to you and a good PERSON and a good dad.
But that hasn't made me a good HUSBAND for you, and for that I'm sorry. I think I'm a real good dad, and a damned good coach and salesperson, and a pretty good "best friend." I'm loyal that way. But being a husband is so much more than that, and rather than fight for what I wanted, and what I believed in, I have wimped out and taken the easy way of what I call "don'tgiveashitness."
It's a defense mechanism.
I accept your apology about your comments. I won't mention them here; you know what they are, and I've done the same thing and for that I too ask for your forgiveness. By treating your beauty, and your sexiness, and even our relationship as some kind of joke, I too have made flippant and even hurtful comments. It was a way to try to "unhurt" my heart, and pretend like your affection doesn't matter to me, or that your beauty doesn't entice me.
But I've been kidding myself. The hole I feel in my heart today, and this past week, tells me, even if I can't put it into words right now, that "it" is still there. At least it is for me.
So there -- I've said it. Because I do feel a little bit like you and I have been like two animals, circling each other, each of us not wanting to go first. Specificallly, each of us not wanting to say "I still love you, you are the world to me, and I don't want to lose you," and yet afraid of what we might hear from the other.
It has TERRIFIED me. The "I Love You But I'm Not IN Love With You Anymore" thing (ILYBINILWY).
Screw that.
Yes, Susan, I do have hurt, and I do have a lot of resentments. Things that I'm sure aren't healthy for me to keep inside, and for which I probably need some counseling to help me with. I think we both do. I pray that you'll join me in that this time. We have both rejected intimacy with each other, and even though you and I both seem to require different kinds of intimacy, it is intimacy nonetheless, and I've intentionally withheld from you as you have withheld from me, and in a hurtful spirit, and for that I am truly sorry.
But I also know that thru the crap and the bile that I hide in my heart sometimes, there is a deep abiding love for you, that -- if we could somehow find a way to get it back -- has the promise of being BETTER THAN EVER because there are so many OTHER things for which I am now so full of admiration for you.
It's funny you mentioned Donna's death, because that's exactly how long I've been wrestling with this most recent self-reflection. It started at her funeral, seeing what her and Tom had, and I've pretty much been dealing with it ever since. The next thing was the girls moving out. I knew I had to "grow a pair" and man up and talk to you, because if we don't, we're not going to give these kids much of a future.
Yes, there is work to do. And I've been immature in the past in my stick-to-it-iveness in doing that work, I'll admit.
No longer. You married a man, and a man I will be. Whether or not that's the man for YOU, I cannot decide for you, but I will no longer tolerate any less from myself.
I do love you so very much.
Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: (Mrs. Choc.) Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:30 AM To: (Chocolateeyes) Subject: Re: We need to talk
Paul,
Sorry I had to cut that short, but (S14) had to get to school.
I want to apologize first for the things I might have said in front of others. I think maybe I was just trying to make this situation seem less than it is because it hurts to be serious about it. We both are so non-confrontational that it's ridiculous. I mean we should have talked about this sooner instead of waiting for it to get to this point. But we didn't. So, where are we now? I honestly don't know. I just know that life is too short for you or I to be unhappy. I guess seeing just how short life is (i.e. Deb's death) probably is what makes me sad. I have felt like I was keeping you in a marriage that you are not happy with and preventing you from finding the happiness you deserve, and that hurts me a lot. If something were to happen to you, I would feel awful that I didn't make your life happier. I hope all this makes sense. I'm speaking from my heart which I haven't done in a long, long time. So, please don't get mad at anything or take offense to anything. We're talking which is good. I hope you know how much this hurts right now and how difficult it is for me to be saying all this. But I know the time has come for us to be honest with each other, and stop trying to avoid unpleasent feelings. We've done that long enough, and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. Please be honest with me too, ok?
We'll talk more. This isn't anything we are going to fix in a day. We need to take time and discuss things and figure out where we are. I love my family with all my heart and being in this place right now isn't anything I have ever wanted to happen. I guess maybe I was living in a fairytale thinking that you could just go through life with no problems, and I was never honest with myself because it would burst that bubble that I always had about what marriage should be. Maybe it's still that "you should be more like Cindy" thing playing over and over again in my head. I can't admit that there are things to talk about and that we are less than perfect, because "Cindy wouldn't do that". So, I put on the perfect game face and try to make everyone around us think that nothing is wrong. But, I see now that you can't do that anymore and neither can I.
Like I said, we need to talk more. I can't handle too much of this at one time, so I'm going to go.
Choc wrote:"Do I let her know that I know about the EA, and insist that it end?"
Only if you have proof or are certain enough not to waiver in your position that she is engaged in an EA. For me, you have more than enough proof, but you need to make sure that you are comfortable with your evidence, otherwise she will dismiss you and go further underground.
Regardless, expect her to lie. Rarely, someone will come clean right off the bat, but that is rare.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Thanks for the quick reply. I didn't save the text messages, if that's what you mean. I suppose when next month's cell phone bill arrives, I could point to the couple of phone calls that I've been able to see so far on her phone's call log, but that's about it.
I do think she would deny it, at least deny that it's been anything more than "flirting" or "enjoying attention." Then again, most people don't have a good understanding of what an EA is (I know I didn't), so that denial is probably normal.
Let me think about this one. I do think that what I will say (and this will be in person, because I want to look her square in the eyes) is "And I do intend to protect my interests here. I don't mind people flattering you, and I'm sure it makes you feel good, but if it goes beyond that, I will get involved, and it will be immediate and it will be forceful. You asked me for honesty, so there's brutal honesty for you."
Choc wrote:"Can you give me an example of this? Do you mean, be empathetic to her pain and treat her lovingly, but don't "go wobbly on us" either?"
I think what you said here will do nicely; "I do think that what I will say (and this will be in person, because I want to look her square in the eyes) is "And I do intend to protect my interests here. I don't mind people flattering you, and I'm sure it makes you feel good, but if it goes beyond that, I will get involved, and it will be immediate and it will be forceful. You asked me for honesty, so there's brutal honesty for you."
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I saw nothing in your W’s response to indicated she is leaving, or wants a D, or is sick of you. All I saw was lots of despair, just like your recent posts. Emotion clouds her outlook, yet there was nothing definitive in her words. To me she is lost too.
Cobra,
It did occur to me that nowhere in her internet time (I have a keylogger) has she searched "Divorce" or "Separation" or even anything to do with "getting the spark back in a marriage" or even "marriage". My wife is the type that ALWAYS turns to the internet when she wants to learn something more about a topic. All of her searches lately have been "Older Man Younger Women" and "How to Look Sexy" and "Pretty Bras and Panties" and "Older Younger Relationships."
So that's good (doesn't seem to want a divorce), and that's bad (trying to make herself more attractive to younger men). I think she's largely living in a fantasy land inside of her head right now, in that thinking about things like "divorce," "separation" or even "infidelity" or "affairs" hasn't even crossed her radar screen yet.
NOP is the expert here on A's, but it seems to me that I would focus more, at first anyway, on communication and starting the work on your M w/ your wife. Real life, too, not just via email. Now that you two have set the stage, I think it's time to talk seriously in person.
As for the EA, what I'm trying to say is that maybe I would hold off on bringing that up until you two have had a chance to figure out "where you are" and what you two are going to do to work on the M.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
