That'd be because YOU aren't alone, you aren't the only woman who has had to experience this horrible dilemna...you aren't the only woman who has had to endure the agony of how it hits you to the core either.
For me, there was some comfort in simply knowing that I wasn't alone.
I provided Heywyre my e-mail address on her thead...feel free to use it.
It's interesting to me that in the long while that I've been on this BB there has not been a single exception to the rule that a LDH will not feel the desire to become fully sexual or join a BB like this until his HDW is basically out the door and no longer wanting him. OTOH, quite a few LDW come here before things get quite so out of hand. It's so clear to me that the "solution" to the problem is not to try to get these guys to want to f*ck the "madonna". The solution is simply that the HDW have to start acting like "whores" , not really "whores" but something more like "b*tches". Some men just get turned on by the drama of having their *ss kicked to the curb or the thought of their wife with another man. I think it's really reflective of low self esteem as in "She doesn't want me so she must be better than me therefore I want her" or "Other men want her so she must be hot so I want her too.".. It's weird how it can simultaneously be true that people are more attracted to people who aren't attracted to them for validation reasons but also more aroused by being around people who are aroused by them for straight-forward sexual-social interaction reasons. Another good reason why looking for validation s*cks if you actually want to have hot sex.
THIS is NOT the solution. I DON'T want to act the whore or the b*t*h! First, that means I'm still working to do the initiating! Second, I can be a little wild, but a whore I'm not. I do work hard to look atractive to him and wear nice things to be attractive to him, since I don't think it's fair to let myself go and then expect him to be attracted to me, but I'll never be 19 again (especially after 6 pregnacies and 2 deliveries!) and being that we are married it's not like I can go out and flagrantly attract other men who are going to pant after me. That wouldn't be right in my mind. It would, in my husband's case anyway, put doubts into his mind about did I actually love him or was I going to leave him for someone else (fidelity). Which would cause him even to create even more emotional distance. He would think I'm not attracted to him anymore.
No, acting the part of the aggressor (the whore) would only make me feel worse. And it would continue the cycle of me still doing all the planning and intiating.
Third, as for validation, thats always a part of relationships. I think that having sex validates the marriage relationship. I think that him initiating validates the fact that he finds me attractive and vice versa.
But this is more about not only his level of desire, lack of ability to initiate, but his seeming inability to ENJOY the actual act of ML. It seems that his emotions are locked up in his mind somewhere and they can't escape. I want the emotions to be free. Men who have sex with whores do not have emotional attachments to them. It's a "use and move on mentality". I want the emotions to be there. That's what a life long committment is built on.
I discussed what you talk about above with our MC awhile back. Remember...I did unleash my inner pornstar, I've done that a few times...and while yes, he enjoyed it (even though it stunned him) it really had NO effect in getting him to initiate.
He still had to overcome the way he thought about me, his wife...the woman he respected. He literally has to retrain his mind to not think of sex as a dirty or disrespectful thing to do to me, but rather a loving and healthy thing to do with me. THAT is a difficult thing to do, retrain ones mind that is.
In my situation there were also a few times when I'd act more like a bitch (which is sooooo not me), when I'd get pushed just too far. While yes, sometimes sex occured afterwards it most definitely wasn't what I wanted....it was duty sex. "She's thrown a fit, so now I have to do something to get her off my back about this." While some people do crave drama, and sometimes that does seem to kick-start their libido....for guys like my H, that doesn't work. It only pushes him further away.
Also, not sure if you are actually suggesting that a woman act like a whore/bitch to get her H revved up BUT...if you are. If the woman isn't of that personality type to begin with, she's not being genuine to who she is. I know the times I felt pushed towards being a bitch, I hated it. I don't like being that way...and when I feel like I have to behave that way....it kills MY libido.
While some people do crave drama, and sometimes that does seem to kick-start their libido....for guys like my H, that doesn't work. It only pushes him further away.
I second that opinion - there was nothing, ever, in our M called "makeup sex". I have heard about it, and it sounds great, but it never, ever happened. All arguing did in our M was push him further and further away, just like you said GEL.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
It wasn't even just arguing....it would be as simple as me stating my need to my H that would push him away. Re-broaching the topic because I needed to get it out of my system...would push him back. Hell, asking him how he "felt" would shut him down.
Mojo, for guys like my H, Heywyre's H, and very possibly Passionate's H...ANYTHING can result in him shutting down. If I upped the heat sexually/emotionally in our relationship in the past he would TOTALLY shut down sexually. The only two things that ever truly had impact that would have been drama related would have been....when I first insisted that we see a MC (or no more anniversaries), and when I discovered what he was doing and he almost found himself divorced. Those two things shook him up enough to take me seriously. True, the firsts one only resulted in us getting to a MC...and that improved our relationship, but the thing that REALLY got his attention and resulted in the most progress was when his online infidelity was discovered and he realized he was REALLY going to lose his family.
Still, neither of those two things resulted in his truly stepping up sexually. If you remember shortly after that I unleashed my inner porn star on him so he could see what he was missing out on....but none of that resulted in HIM initiating. Why? Because he still couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that I was sexual like the women he viewed as sexual...but viewed as dirty and damaged goods (those are his words).
I can guarantee you...if causing drama in my marriage would have resulted in sex...I'd have learned to be a friggin drama queen, but even if I had that wouldn't have been true to who I am and I'd have hated being that way.
I have been there. I have been in a situation where I just did not want to have sex.
I was in a kind of "anti-social" mood. I didn't really want to connect to anybody, her included. I tried to interact with her enough to keep her happy, but too much was profoundly uncomfortable. And letting loose and playing with her, especially sexually, was definitely too much. I could force myself to "go through the motions" for "normal" interactions, but getting naked, literally and figuratively, and playing with her was something I dreaded.
There was nothing wrong with my sex drive. I just didn't want to deal with another person.
It went on for far too long, and it still creeps up from time to time.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
ILH - you have no clue whatsoever what GEL and I (and possibly Passionate) is going through when it comes to our husbands. It is not solely about "turning it on" when the wife walks out the door. It has nothing to do with that. Our Hs have a disorder, complex, syndrome whatever you want to call it.
If I initiated sex with my H, I can guarantee that would be one sure way of him withdrawing even more, every single time. He detests it. Why? Because he does not see me as a sexual being, that disgusts him. He is not just LD, he has a mindset that needs to be reprogrammed
It has nothing to do with a power struggle - if it was, I would have had this taken care of a long, long time ago.
I applaud you for having sex 2-4X per week - I would be thrilled to death if I had that much a year!
This is not about just doing it, if it was, I would initiate every time, no problem.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
MB on the sly. I think that was the case with GEL's H
as hard as it is to believe...yes, he went online, yes he interacted with others...but NO he did not and does not MB. For a time I found that very hard to believe, but he HONESTLY does not.
Sex isn't a control issue for men with Whore/Madonna (like my H and Heywyre's and possibly Passionate's)...it is, as Heywyre said how their brain is programmed to perceive it....and it is a difficult thing to reprogram....almost like trying to reprogram yourself to think that a hot stove top really isn't hot when you touch it. Pretty difficult to do huh? It's that difficult for a man with Whore/Madonna to look at his wife and think "sex". It also keeps them in a box sexually when it comes to having sex with his their wives...because it tends to be very boilerplate, just to get the job done. Length of time may vary, but I'd be willing to put money on the fact that most of them finish VERY quickly too....they get it over with.
My H is making great progress, and I have no idea how far he'll actually progress, but it's better than it was. He's taking baby steps and trying to do some things...but my always initiating does no favors to his progress at this point, because he needs to learn to do this for himself. If he wants sex (which he says he does now) he has to learn to ask for it and not wait for me to finally initiate to receive it.
Don't apologize for your post...it was well intentioned, just off track
