Sorry, oldtimer, I hadn't gotten to that yet, and I'm trying to squeeze these in between a hectic deadline that I'm under at work.
I guess that's why I'm not an alpha male, cuz I just CANNOT see myself saying ANY of those things. The tone that I'm trying to capture here is, something that's neither needy/whiny/grabby/beotchy, nor witty/charming/flirty/chivalrous.
I'm looking for help to confidently establish boundaries; not woo and charm her when she's misbehavin.'
Second, an alpha male is HONEST WITH HIMSELF: you were so "angry" because you were SCARED, either about her safety, her cheating, or both. You beligerant unfocused rage and the whole "I been dissed" attitude is not attractive. Really, really not attractive. I HATE the whole faux macho don't-diss-me BS. Get clear with yourself about your own feelings and report them accurately.
Oldtimer,
I reall don't think that was it. The best word I can think of for the way I felt last night was "impotent." Powerless. And like a FAILURE.
OK, that's three words, but "scared" wasn't one of them. I just felt powerless over the situation, and not knowing how to handle it.
My wife chose this position because, when her trainer (the late-60s guy) got promoted to be supervisor of all of the trainers, he told my wife "Hey, let me know when you've got that certification, because I was talking to Annie (his boss) about you, and we both agreed that you'd be great at this. But don't take too long to get it, because we can't wait forever."
She was flattered, the place is convenient (by far the closest gym to our house, and our kids' school), and after having been out of the workforce for 20 years, she frankly didn't feel like she was playing with a whole lot of chips, kwim.
But I'm quibbling with you, because I think she chose to WORK OUT AT this gym -- and hang out with these people -- in large part because of the youthful way it makes her feel. She definitely enjoys the "hot mom" role, and the attention she receives.
If you don't want to charm, just cut off the charming bits. The direct message remains the same.
If you felt impotent, what exactly did you want to control that you felt you couldn't?
Why would you want to control it?
Ah, maybe you were HURT: "W, I was really pissed off last night. I think the anger was masking feeling hurt. I felt like I didn't matter to you when you didn't let me know you would be late last night. It made me feel like a failure as a husband who is powerless to change things. It really sucked."
Is that closer?
The point is to find out what is really under the anger and communicate that directly, unapologetically. You aren't going to be expending all this energy simply because someone was a bit rude to you. SOMETHING else is going on. What is it??
You just answered your own question when you said:
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The only reason I ask is you kind of categorized (and maybe I'm wierd) but it only took 1 D bomb and I now have a note on my computer that says "NEVER FORGET." I do not ever want to have to go through that again -- I love my H so very much and am willing to do all I can to save my M
That has been my same debate, over and over again with everyone on here, for the past several years -- that when you love someone, you're told of their intense pain and have seen it up-close, and you've PROMISED that it (intentionally turning away, and becoming affection-less) wouldn't happen again, you DON'T just blow that off if you truly love the person, and care about them, and can continue to see signs of their pain daily.
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Anyway, I'm just wondering what would happen if you did decide to talk to your W again? Even if you said to yourself "Self, just one more time and that's it."
That is what I told myself . . . the last time. That WAS the "one more time."
To answer your question, we had "The Talk" about 12-15 times, I suppose, over the years 3 thru 17 or so of our marriage. The final time was three or four years ago when I broke down in front of her, laid everything out on the table, and threatened to leave her if things didn't change. Long story short, she had this big "epiphany" moment, shared with me why she did what she did, and swore that "the old Mrs. Choc." would never, EVER return. And for about 60 days, we enjoyed bliss like I haven't experience since we were newlyweds, and I DON'T just mean sex. Kisses. Touching. Gentuine affection. Back scratches. Making my favorite meal. Respecting and praising me verbally in front of others.
It was glorious, and I even told her at the time that if it ever "wore off" again to the extent that it had (I'm not talking about a mere "bad day"; we all have those . . I'm talking about the total rejection and lack of affection, if THAT ever returned, that I would NOT beg for her affection, and that the love life would basically be over.
It did, and it is.
Anyway, I hope that answers. I find myself wanting to reply to everyone's questions, to not be rude, but I really just wanted to know what to say to my wife today.
Ah, maybe you were HURT: "W, I was really pissed off last night. I think the anger was masking feeling hurt. I felt like I didn't matter to you when you didn't let me know you would be late last night. It made me feel like a failure as a husband who is powerless to change things. It really sucked."
I guess I don't want to give her that satisfaction.
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The point is to find out what is really under the anger and communicate that directly, unapologetically. You aren't going to be expending all this energy simply because someone was a bit rude to you. SOMETHING else is going on. What is it??
I'm not sure. I am under a tremendous amount of financial stress lately, and I guess maybe I'm just feeling like a total failure in so many areas of my life simultaneously. I was honestly trying to soul-search my true feelings last night, to find out what it was that was bothering me so much (because, to be honest, I WASN'T all that "worried" -- she was with a group I know, I knew where they were, it was nearby, she had a COP with her for crissakes, and she wasn't driving).
I think I just felt like a sap. And I CANNOT STAND feeling like a sap.
If nothing else, you can always just say: "W, that was really sh*tty of you to stay out so late without touching base. I deserve more respect than that."
Whatever.
Just be honest with yourself and her, and don't try to manage or manipulate her.
What’s your point with this thread? You say you wanted ideas on what you should have said to your W last night. You deny having any feelings for her. You seem to care less whether some other man makes a move on her. You admit to feeling sad if you were to D and your W get custody of the kids and you get visitation. Then you say your W “knows that she has ripped my heart out about before, and yet still chooses to reject me.”
You are all over the map! The only one who doesn’t seem to see this is you. To me, it seems clear that you very much want to have a relationship with your W but your anger, resentment and ego prevent you from taking the necessary steps. Because you have been hurt, you seem to think she somehow “owes” it to you to repair the M, out of some sense of entitlement over the marriage vows. It seems to me she threw those out the window long ago, and because of your wimpy P/A, victim-like approach, I think she had good reason to do just that.
Do you really hear how you come across? That BS idea you had about what to say to her regarding last night is nothing more than self protection. You shroud it in a statement of concern for her safety, but she will see right through that. What is your reason for being concerned? How will she hear it? That you are concerned about her drinking and driving, or getting into some other trouble because you don’t to be bothered by a call to the emergency room, or police station? Won’t this sound to her like you are more concerned about YOU than her?
If you want her to hear your concern, then you will have to be brave enough to say it. Tell her you are angry that she does not love you anymore, that you are jealous she is seeking the attention of younger men over you, that you feel she is abandoning you, that you are concerned you will lose her. These things are the truth, best as I can read your sitch. All else is self protective deflection.
You’ve been feeding her that stuff for too long, so she has decided to take it at face value. Now you are coming face to face with the consequences of trying to make her believe that you don’t care – she no longer cares. Your self-fulfilling prophecy has come true. Either accept the future you have crafted (not to excuse her role in this) or take action to turn things around and make the future you want, rather than sit around hoping she will see your pain and take pity on you.
Those other guys at the gym aren’t showing one ounce of pity. They have their own issues too (lack of self confidence, lack of brains, lack of education, etc., etc., etc.), but on the surface, the surface your W is focusing on, they are assertive go-getters trying to get the most from life they can. If you don’t drop the P/A avoidance, you will pale in comparison to them (on the surface) and you will lose your W, and your kids (except for visitation rights) and your home, and half of everything else. By this I don’t mean you need to be a body builder or an aggressive, dominating alpha male. That is NOT what it takes to show your W you care. You have to tackle this head on and be direct. Confront your W and all your issues openly and honestly and stop hiding. Express your emotions. That is assertiveness. That is power. That is alpha.
"I guess I don't want to give her that satisfaction."
Great, so instead you give her the power over you to make you feel like a sap. That works. Not.
Being honest and direct is EMPOWERING. If it makes her happy that you were hurt, TOO BAD FOR HER. WTF cares???
I don't think you need your W to F around on you, or even to F you. You seem to be in a mode of trying to control things that you can't control by being so withholding that you are Fing YOURSELF.
Book recommendation to help YOU in your life and job: "Conquer your critical inner voice" by Firestone.
