Give up?

[still hoping]

Thanks RCR. Lots of thought-provoking questions - just what I needed. So lost right now and feel totally stoned. Even smashed in to a pole today while reversing my car.

Ok, I'll try to go in order:

Re: Being passive-aggressive and wanting a D but asking him to file.
I guess the main reason for this, which I realize is not the best reason, is that by me filing, I'm giving OW what she wants. I know that I can't base my actions on their reactions, but why should I make her happy? I feel that if H has decided he doesn't want to come home, then HE should be the one to file - it's the right thing for him to do in this situation, rather than keeping me waiting around. Plus he's very irresponsible and I want him to actually be the one to take action and have to go through the process. Don't want to make it so simple for him that all he has to do is sign the papers I hand to him. I also think that he's waiting for me to file so that he can say that I'm the one who wanted the D, thus feeling less guilty that this is all his fault. And finally, he doesn't like being told what to do, so I guess I want OW to keep pushing him for a D to piss him off. Overall, I think maybe at this point the legality of the D is not a big deal to me. I just don't want to have a R with him anymore.

Re: What do I really want? Hope?
Yeah, maybe that is why I'm still posting here. All the revelations are pretty fresh so maybe with time, I will still change my mind??? Just about everyone I know is pro-D. Most haven't been through this and certainly don't know about DB. Guess I want you all to play devil's advocate for me and because this is the last step for me, I want help so that I am absolutely sure that leaving is the right thing to do. I know that it is only my decision to make - just have a one track mind right now to bolt out of this place ASAP and everyone is supporting me to do so. I feel totally justified in getting a D at this point, but if anyone else sees things differently, that's what I'm looking for (btw, I'm not religious, so basing your reasons on that won't help me).

None of my friends have experience with MLC either. I guess maybe I am still hoping that he will someday come out of this, not necessarily to come back to me, but to be the person he used to be and so that I can respect him again (I still love and care about him - he's my family and I need him for to be a good person because he's the father of my children, M or not). This is what's holding me back from being a total b!tch and making this a nasty ending. So I guess that I am also looking for some success stories from you guys that MLCers do make it out of the tunnel eventually. I would love for him to come back if/when he ever does make it out and apologize and want me back, even though it will be too late for me. I don't want to give up on him (even though I'm giving up on our M). Does that make any sense?

Re: Typical OW being ugly and jealous
I was definitely relieved to see/hear that she is both. Ok, so she's not hideous, but she certainly isn't pretty, like H described (he usually has really high standards, so I was expecting gorgeous). I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, even when they don't deserve it. In this case, I do really believe that she is a nice girl. Apparently she was adament about not having a R with him because he was M w/kids. I have no idea what H told her to convince her otherwise. The other thing is that she comes from a third world country and is now here living the good life with him (and my H really knows how to enjoy life). Not sure if she'll ever let go of H because of that. I would love to have her reveal her ugly jealousy monster to him, which is another reason I don't want to be nasty. Maybe she'll behave the opposite of how I am behaving?

Re: Telling H I know about her/her background
I actually really enjoyed knowing that he was freaking out wondering if/what Friend was talking to me about. So I think I've decided that for now, it's best to not say directly to him that I know anything. Would rather have him feel uncomfortable and look over his shoulder when he's out than be really open about going out with her. From what Friend says, he's not affectionate with her in public and has just recently started bringing him out with her. I'm sure that this will bother her eventually too. Once he knows for sure that I know, he won't care about anything. The fact that she was a skanky "hostess" is what he is most afraid of me discovering, I think. Friend is going to tell him he must be really stupid to think that I am that stupid not to know about her being OW. So it'll still be somewhat of a mystery how much I know. Although, they say illicit affairs last longer, so maybe by really letting him go public, it would end sooner. It's already been around 18 months, on and off.

He knows that I met her because he's the one who introduced us with MAJOR RELUCTANCE and even gave gave her another name (he told me she manages the restaurant and said OW never came back). Friend told me that H ran in to H's sister when he was with OW and didn't intorduce them. He's definitely not trying to flaunt her in front of his family. Another plus, because what kind of person would put up with that? Nevermind, I know - skanky OWs of course! I really think he's ashamed of her background - which is pretty important to his family. So what does all that mean?

Re: Friends knowing about her and meeting her
These are really all of his guy friends who I've known for a long time. We are (I should say were) a pretty close group - all the guys were best friends and all of us wives are best friends. The other Friend I mentioned is an older bachelor - divorced for 15 years who screws around with ALL kinds of girls and isn't afraid to tell people about it. The other "friends" are all married. Whether or not they tried to stop H from cheating is uncertain. Anyway, H doesn't listen to anyone. Always has done whatever he wants and you can't tell him otherwise or else it will make him do it more. Friend who outed him told me in strict confidentiality. Unless I tell Friend in advance that I'm going to tell H who told me, I won't let him know how I found out, if I tell him anything at all.

Re: Not filing
He hasn't given any reasons for not doing so. In fact, we haven't had any R talk WHATSOEVER since Jan. The only thing that I can think of is that he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants space to have R with OW and live his life the way he's living it, and have the option to come back to me when he's ready in a few years, knowing it may be too late. He doesn't want to burn his bridges. Friend originally wanted to talk to me to tell me that H was never coming back to me and so I should move on. But after finding out H hasn't acted on D and hasn't even told me about OW, he's really baffled. That's when he remembered that H did say a few months ago that he can't say he will never be with me again.

Re: What advice I want
At this point, any! But if I have to be specific, I guess it would be advice on how to stay calm and rational so that I don't become the nasty ex-wife. Also advice on what to tell S5 and how to handle him being with H. I don't think he's met OW, but I'm not positive. If OW is out in the open, can I ask H to not have her be around when he has boys? Or will that just piss him off and make him do the opposite? Knowing my H, that's what would happen... If I decide to leave, how do I handle that sitch? Plan right now is to not tell H until the last minute - and to let his whole family know that I was planning to stay, but now that I've found out what kind of work OW used to do, I can't let my kids be around her.

Still don't know if any of that is clear. Head is still spinning and heart is still racing.